Mr. SLOAN. What would be the ordinary percentage of gluten made through corn flour and made through the milling process? Dr. WESENER. It would vary from 7 to 8 per cent. Mr. LIND. Are you confident of those figures? As a matter of fact, is it not much lower-4 to 5 per cent? Dr. WESENER. You mean in the corn flour? Mr. LIND. Yes; after the removal of the germ. Dr. WESENER. About 7 to 8 per cent is what we find in our analyses. The CHAIRMAN. How much does a loaf of bread weigh in New York, according to the laws? Dr. WESENER. I do not know. The CHAIRMAN. Assuming it weighs 12 ounces, if a loaf of bread weighing 12 ounces were made out of pure wheat flour and another loaf weighing the same amount were made out of mixed flour, such as we are talking about here, which loaf would contain the most moisture? Dr. WESENER. Well, probably the bread that was made out of the whole wheat, because it would take up more moisture. Of course, it is hard to answer that offhand, because the bread made out of the wholewheat flour may have been made out of wheat flour that did not have a very high absorption, whereas the one that contains 20 per cent cornstarch may have been mixed with a wheat flour that has a high absorption, and it might have more water than the other. It is very hard to answer that; but I would say, using the same flour, the same kind of flour, one straight and the other 20 per cent cornstarch, the straight flour would take up a little more moisture. The CHAIRMAN. Suppose you take the same flour, made out of the same wheat, and make a loaf of bread out of it, and make another loaf of bread using 80 per cent of that same wheat flour and 20 per cent of starch, which loaf of bread would contain the most moisture? Dr. WESENER. The one made out of the whole-wheat flour would have the most moisture and absorb the most moisture. Of course, how long that would be retained is something that I can not answer; it would take more water to turn into a dough than the other. Mr. FORDNEY. Which loaf would be the heavier one when baked? Dr. WESENER. The chances are that the one with the starch would be somewhat heavier. Mr. FORDNEY. Even though wheat bread contained the greatest amount of moisture, the other would be the heavier? Dr. WESENER. I think it might weigh the most; yes; it is not the same flour. Mr. FORDNEY. I am talking of the same flour. Dr. WESENER. Because starch would be somewhat different. The CHAIRMAN. I am talking about a loaf of bread weighing 12 ounces-which had the largest amount of moisture. Some wheat flours have larger absorbent properties than others? Dr. WESENER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That is all. Mr. LANNEN. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Haskell would like to say a few words. I will be here until the end of this meeting, and I would like some of these other witnesses who have to go soon to talk. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. STATEMENT OF MR. HARRY L. HASKELL, REPRESENTING THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF WHITE CORN MILLERS, 809 SECOND NATIONAL BANK BUILDING, TOLEDO, OHIO. Mr. HASKELL. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I wish to say that I am here representing the National Association of White Corn Millers. I might add in this connection that the purpose of this organization, I believe, is somewhat misunderstood among some of the people that are interested in this hearing. I wish to take the liberty at this time to go on record as to the purposes of this organization. This is taken from our constitution and by-laws, and is as follows: That the purpose of this organization shall be as follows: 1. To encourage and protect the trade and business of white corn milling and to cultivate more intimate and friendly relations among members and to promote in every lawful manner the interests of their business. 2. To maintain the standard of purity and quality of products from white corn in all possible ways. 3. To take united action in correcting all opinions adversely and unjustly effecting the consumption and uses of product milled from white corn. 4. To educate the dealers in and consumers of white-corn products in regard to the purity and wholesomeness and uses of said products. 5. To take united action in respect to all questions before State or national legislatures wherein untrue impressions in regard to the nature and uses of products of white corn are involved, and whereby unjust rules, regulations, standards, or laws restricting or adversely affecting the sale of products from while corn may ensue. I might say, in this connection, that the members of my association are as follows: American Hominy Co., Indianapolis, Ind.; Miner Hilliard Milling Co., Wilkes Barre, Pa.; Patent Cereals Co., Geneva, N. Y.; Buffalo Cereal Co., Buffalo, N. Y.; Standard Cereal Co., Chillicothe, Ohio; Schmidt & Walker Co., Cincinnati, Ohio; W. H. Haskell & Co., Toledo, Ohio; United States Frumentum Co., Detroit, Mich.; Baltimore Pearl Hominy Co., Baltimore, Md.; Louisville Cereal Mills, Louisville, Ky.; Elevator & Mill Co., Springfield, Ill.; Charles A. Krause Milling Co., Milwaukee, Wis.; F. H. Kidder Milling Co., Paris, Ill.; Nebraska Corn Mills, Lincoln, Nebr.; Mystic Milling Co., Sioux City, Iowa; Marco Mills, Pine Bluff, Ark.; Blair Milling Co., Atchison, Kans. Our members buy corn in all of the great corn-producing States of the country and in all of the States which I have mentioned; also Missouri, Texas, and other States that produce corn. The proposition as it appears to me is that the tax that is now upon mixed flour is unjust in that it discriminates against the product in which we are most deeply interested. Statistics show that the corn crop of this country is the greatest product that this country has, and it amounted in 1915, according to the Government crop report of December 30, 1915, to a total of 3,044,535,000 bushels of corn, as compared with wheat, 1,011,505,000 bushels, grown in the same year. We believe that we are being discriminated against, and we protest against it. There is no question in our mind or in anybody's mind, as I can see from the testimony that has been given here at this hearing, that corn does not bear a very valuable and nutritious element for the human being. We therefore object to having corn, no matter how it is used for food purposes, branded as being in the same class with whisky or any other article of that kind Mr. FORDNEY. How many bushels of corn did I understand you to say your representatives consume each year? Mr. HASKELL. I have not announced that. That was brought out in Col. Miner's address yesterday. Mr. FORDNEY. What were you using that number of bushels in connection with? Mr. HASKELL. I wanted to show the importance of the corn crop in the country to-day. Mr. FORDNEY. Oh; I misunderstood you. Mr. MOORE. What did you say the crop was? Mr. HASKELL. 3,044,535,000 bushels. Mr. FORDNEY. That is right. I misunderstood you. Mr. DIXON. Do you know what percentage of it is used on the farm and what percentage in commerce? Mr. HASKELL. I can not give you positive facts now or statistics, but I presume that 100,000,000 bushels of corn are used for human consumption, the rest of it being fed in different ways. Mr. Tanner, of the Ohio Wheat Flour Millers' Association, made a remark a few minutes ago that I take very strong objections to. He was asked if he knew of any honest miller of corn flour and wheat flour who objected to the present tax on mixed flour Mr. FORDNEY. I asked the question that you have reference to, but I did not ask him that. Mr. HASKELL. Somebody asked him that. Mr. FORDNEY. I said wheat flour, not wheat and corn. Mr. HASKELL. Wheat flour and corn flour. Pardon me. I Mr. FORDNEY. No; I did not include corn flour. did not intend to do it if I did. I had reference to the manufacture of wheat flour alone when I asked that question. Mr. HASKELL. I beg your pardon. I wanted to bring out the fact, if that was the question as I understood it; I wanted to defend Col. Miner, inasmuch as he is absent. Col. Miner has been in the milling business longer than anybody connected with this fight; that is, his family has, dating back to seventeen hundred and something. I have forgotten when it was; but that was brought out in his address. Mr. FORDNEY. I asked him if he knew of any manufacturer of "honest" flour. I put it that way, and then I said "wheat flour." I said: "Do you know of any who are opposed to the repeal of this law?" That is the question I asked him. So I think you misunderstood my question. Mr. HASKELL. I hope that I misunderstood the question on account of Mr. Tanner. I know him very well, and I would hate to think for a minute that he would take that responsibility. Mr. MOORE. I wish to say that Col. Miner stands very high in the milling business in Pennsylvania; and I sat next to Mr. Fordney, and I did not understand Mr. Fordney to make any reflection on him. Mr. TANNER. I do not think my answer reflected on Col. Miner. I did not say anything about his motive in being opposed to this. Mr. FORDNEY. Did you understand my question? Mr. TANNER. Yes. I did not reflect on Col. Miner, and did not intend to. Mr. HASKELL. There has been considerable discussion as to whether or not there is such a thing as corn flour; and if it is not clear in the minds of the committee that there is such an article as corn flour, that has been made for years, I would like to have an opportunity of proving it to this committee as well as to the wheat-flour millers that there is such a thing being made and sold to-day in large quantities. Mr. FORDNEY As corn flour? Mr. HASKELL. As corn flour; yes, sir. Mr. FORDNEY. Commercially known as corn flour? Mr. HASKELL. Commercially known as corn flour; a pure corn flour, made from nothing else and adulterated with nothing else. Mr. FORDNEY. Can you put that in a brief or in some way, so that the committee can have it? Mr. HASKELL. I said I would be glad to produce sufficient proof to the committee that there is such an article. Mr. LIND. What is it used for? Mr. HASKELL. For food purposes-for human beings. Mr. MOORE. Will you tell us where it is sold? Perhaps that is the best way. Mr. HASKELL. It is sold throughout the country. It is sold in Europe. Mr. MOORE. In what cities in the United States can you buy it as corn flour? Mr. HASKELL. I can not pick out any one city. I can not tell you any cities it is not sold in. Mr. MOORE. Dr. Wesener indicated a little while ago that he did not know of its being commercially used. He said he could get it, but he said he did not know where it was disposed of as a commodity. Mr. HASKELL. I should be very much surprised if it could not be bought in Washington. It is not handled as freely as wheat flour. Mr. MOORE. You say the crop was over 3,000,000,000 bushels last year? Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir. Mr. MOORE. And of that amount, 100,000,000 bushels went into the food supply for human beings? Mr. HASKELL. The consumption of human beings. Mr. MOORE. In this country and in Europe? Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir. Mr. MOORE. Did it go into consumption as corn flour, or did it go into consumption as cornstarch or corn meal? Mr. HASKELL. A large portion of the corn that my association members grind is used for the making of what is known as hominy. That is a large part of the corn, after it is cracked. Mr. MOORE. For corn pone, corn bread? Mr. HASKELL. We are getting into that. This hominy, you know, is soaked and boiled. Then there is a hominy grit that goes into the making of breakfast foods. You have all eaten toasted corn flakes. Those are made out of white corn. Mr. FORDNEY. Is there not an article called frumentum? Mr. HASKELL. That is used in brewing. Mr. FORDNEY. Very largely used for that purpose? Mr. HASKELL. There are grits that are used in the brewing of beer. Mr. FORDNEY. How much corn is used for that purpose? Mr. HASKELL. I can not tell you that, but I guess there is considerable used for that. Mr. FORDNEY. This corn flour that you say may be found in any city-before it is used, cooked, and put on the table for food, is it mixed with anything else? Mr. HASKELL. It depends on whether they want to or not. If they want corn cakes, they do not have to mix it. Mr. FORDNEY. Do they make corn cake out of corn flour? Mr. HASKELL. Oh, yes. Mr. FORDNEY. I think they do that over in the House restaurant, and I do not want them. I always send them back. Mr. HASKELL. I prefer it. It is a difference of opinion. Mr. MOORE. Does it go into the manufacture of cereals? Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir. Mr. MOORE. That is a part of the consumption of 100,000,000 bushels? Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir. Mr. MOORE. Does it go into such specialities as Post Toasties? Mr. MOORE. Toasted corn flakes? Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir. Mr. MOORE. Such corn as goes into that sort of consumption for that sort of manufacture is a part of the 100,000,000 bushels that you say are disposed of for food purposes, human food purposes? Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir. Mr. MOORE. I will ask you why you distinguish yourself as a whitecorn millers' association? From whom do you want to separate in making that distinction? Mr. HASKELL. There is a great difference between yellow corn and white corn. In the South yellow corn is a drug on the market. They want white corn. Mr. MOORE. What do they use yellow corn in the South for, exclusively? Mr. HASKELL. For feeding. Mr. MOORE. Not for human food? Mr. HASKELL. No, sir. Mr. MOORE. The white corn, then, is the only corn that is used for human food? Mr. HASKELL. No. In the North the condition is just the reverse. People in the North only know yellow corn meal Mr. MOORE. But the southern people do not use the yellow corn for food purposes? Mr. HASKELL. No, sir. Mr. FORDNEY. I have spent much of my time in the South, and you can go any time in the States of Mississippi, or Florida, or Georgia, or Alabama and see yellow corn made into johnnie cakes. Mr. HASKELL. Sure, you can; but I am telling you what is used to the greatest extent in the South is white corn, because that is a matter of record. I am not going to make any remarks here that I can not substantiate. Mr. FORDNEY. I understood you to say that yellow corn was not used in the South. Mr. HASKELL. No; I did not. I said white corn was used to a greater extent, practically almost entirely. Mr. MOORE. Do the yellow-corn manufacturers join with you in asking the repeal of the existing law? Mr. HASKELL. No, sir; I just represent the white-corn millers. Mr. MOORE. Then there are other corn manufacturers that may have views on that subject apart from yours? |