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Q. (By Mr. REED.) Do you remember when that was, Mr. Galvin?
A. No, I don't.
Adjourned, at 7.01 P.M., to meet on Wednesday, November 21st, at 4 o'clock P.M.
WEDNESDAY, November 21, 189.
The committee met at four o'clock P.M. in the Council Chamber, Chairman HALLSTRAM in the chair.
JOHN GALVIN. Resumed.
Q. (By Mr. REED.) Did you have any rules, Mr. Galvin, when you were superintendent of Long Island?
A. I did, sir.
Q. And where were those rules? Where did you keep them?
A. They were posted on the walls in a frame.
Q. And they were rules signed by yourself, I presume?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you keep them posted all the time that you were superintendent there?
A. Did I keep the inmates posted?
Q. Did you keep the rules posted up in sight?
A. I tried as well as I could; and I think I was successful.
Q. And at Rainsford Island, do you have rules?
A. The same rules we have there, sir.
Q. Is that a copy of your rules, Mr. Galvin? (Holding up a set of rules in large type, appended hereto, and marked "Exhibit S."
4. That is a copy of them, sir, that I have taken from one of the frames in the institution.
Q. Then you have them framed?
A. I have them framed; yes, sir; and I should have had these rules put up some time before that, if it were not that the poor people are illiterate. I never saw one of them reading the rules while I was there, and I thought, in fact, that they were useless; and I never wanted to see the walls covered with these notices, or I would have had those notices printed before I did. This was printed September 2, 1892.
Q. Well, something has been said, Mr. Galvin, about prisoners working on Long Island. Did you ever employ prisoners there? Did you ever have the prisoners at work on Long Island?
A. I have had prisoners brought over daily by Mr. Gerrish, superintendent of Deer Island. When I wanted men I sent over for these men, and he always sent them promptly.
Q. What did they do over there?
A. They were working on the farm.
Q. They were then working for the city?
A. They were working for the city.
Q. And, I presume, that among the prisoners at Deer Island there are very often many good mechanics, are there not?
A. You will find some of the best mechanics in the city among them.
Q. And when you needed a carpenter or a painter you were in the habit of sending to Deer Island?
A. Occasionally; yes, sir. I generally used to have a carpenter among my own inmates that was there constantly, and when I wanted an additional man, I sent to Mr. Gerrish for him.
Q. And the work which these men did on Long Island was work for the city?
A. Work for the city; yes, sir.
Q. I presume at times it might be possible to get a plumber from Deer Island?
A. Any time I wanted one, sir, I could get him.
Q. Did you ever have occasion to send there for a plumber?
Q. During your superintendency at Long Island some new buildings were erected there, were there not?
A. There were, sir. There was a new hospital.
QAnd do you remember who built that hospital?
A. McNeil Brothers, I guess, or McNeil. I don't know whether it was McNeil Brothers or McNeil.
Q. Well, McNeil was the contractor?
A. He was the contractor; yes, sir.
Q. And he brought his men there with him, I presume?
A. He did, sir.
Q. Now, Mr. Galvin, I want to know if you ever sent to Deer Island to get prisoners to work for Mr. McNeil on that building? A. I never did, sir.
Q. Did you ever know of any prisoners working there under Mr. McNeil?
A. I know he had a hod-carrier I think he had a man who used to mix the mortar, but whether he had any more than that I don't know.
Q. Do you know whether he paid him?
A. I think he did, sir.
Q. Did any of your inmates cease to be inmates and go to work for Mr. McNeil?
A. There was one of my men, a carpenter, who worked for Mr. McNeil. He came to me aud asked for the privilege to earn a few dollars, and I told him he might, that he might go to Mr. McNeil; but before leaving I told him that if he boarded at the institution I would charge him for his board and return it to the Commission, which I did.
Q. Now, then, before he did any work for the contractor, he ceased to be an inmate of the institution and worked for pay, and paid his board?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you ever tell any one, Mr. Galvin, that you got prisoners over there to work for the contractors, and that you had to do it
that you had been ordered to do it, and had to do it?
A. I never told that to a human being that I recollect of. Q. And it was not a fact that you ever did anything of the kind?
A. Nothing of the kind, sir.
Q. And you never told anybody that you got prisoners over there and that you did it on your own responsibility, without consulting anybody, did you?
A. I don't hardly understand that, Mr. Reed.
Q. It has been said here that you sent over to Deer Island and got prisoners to work for the contractors that they came over there, and then you let the contractors use them?
A. I never sent for prisoners to work for the contractors.
Q. And then it has been said, further, that when you were questioned about that you said you did it on your own responsibility?
A. That is not correct, sir.
Q. Something has been said, also, about the sanitary condition of the institution on Long Island during your term as superintendent there. I would like to ask you, Mr. Galvin, what the condition was as to cleanliness?
A. I considered it perfect at that time.
Mr. BRANDeis. What was that question?
Mr. REED. I asked him about the condition of the institution as to cleanliness.
Mr. BRANDEIS. Which institution?
Mr. REED. The institution at Long Island, where he was superintendent.
Q. (By Mr. REED.) It has also been testified here, that two privy vaults out in the fields were all that the inmates were allowed to use?
A. That is a very wrong assertion, sir. They are used for the men who work on the farm, prisoners and inmates who work on the farm, and nobody else; and they were put there during the time when the building was going on.
Q. They were erected there, then, by the builders?
A. By the builders; yes, sir.
Q. For the use of their men?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, what was the provision in the institution itself as to water-closets.
A. I think there are eight or nine places; at least that. More too, I should say.
Q. The inmates were allowed to use those places?
A. They were gotten up for them, of course, and they used them.
Q. That is what they were there for?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember, Mr. Galvin, how many water-closets there were at each end of the main building?
A. At the west end, I think there were three or four; and I don't seem to recollect what was on the east end. But I know we had plenty of water-closets there, plenty of them.
Q. And were the inmates forbidden to use them?
A. Never. Allow me, sir, a moment to correct myself. Probably they might for five or six hours at one time when we were short of water, and not more than five or six hours, because at the time we were short of water I had men fetch up water in pails and flush out the water-closets regularly.
Q. Well, you don't remember exactly how many you had?
Q. Were there as many as twenty when you left the island? A. I hardly think so.
Q. You don't think there were as many as that?
A. I hardly think there were twenty, sir.
Q. Now, when you were there, did you ever sell any milk?
A. I think I bave sold a few quarts to a German that was down there, for his family - I think I did.
Q. Well, at the time that you sold that milk, did you have plenty left?
A. We had plenty for the inmates
Q. (By Mr. REED.) You never sold any milk, Mr. Galvin, when the selling of the milk would make a shortage in the milk that was left for the inmates, did you?
A. Never did, sir
Q. I understood you to say that the food which is furnished to the inmates is the same now that it was when you were superintendent at both islands?
A. Just the same, sir.
Q. And that the inmates are as well satisfied now at your island, Rainsford Island, as they were when you were superintendent of both islands?
A. Equally as well; and to satisfy you on that, sir, I will show you this paper, which you can look at, if you please. (Holding up a long paper.) There is no discontent in regard to food there, or anything else that I know of. The court of justice I guess, will testify to that.
Q. Well, what is this, Mr. Galvin?
A. I will read it, sir.
RAINSFORD ISLAND, BOSTON HARBOR, November, 19, 1894.
The undersigned, inmates of the institution at Rainsford Island, consider it their duty to respond to the charges made by Mrs. Alice Lincoln, viz.: that the food was insufficient; that the soup was of an inferior quality, and that the institution was in a filthy condition. We desire to state that we have always received a plenteous supply of good food, and that the soup has always been excellent. Also, that under the care of the present superintendent, cleanliness in all the departments of the institution and in the clothing and persons of the inmates has been the unvarying rule.
On the day before yesterday, gentlemen, on account of the assertions that were made by Mrs. Lincoln, I announced at the dinner-table that if there were any of them dissatisfied with the food they got or the treatment they received, to come and sign a paper; and that those who were in favor of the treatment they received, I