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you were at their head, and made no complaints. Now, if it should turn out that after you went away and Dr. Cogswell was in charge they complained, to what do you attribute that fact?

A. I have nothing to do or say about it. I speak during the time that I was there, and no more.

Q. Well, if you should find, Mr. Galvin, that wbile you were there these upper rooms were ventilated, because they had your daily supervision in regard to the opening of the windows, and that after you left and Dr. Cogswell came in charge they were not opened at all, and that there was complaint about lack of ventilation, to what would you attribute the charge?

A. I don't know anything about it, sir. They are conducting the institution without my superintendency. They have got a better one there.

Q. Well, now, if you should find that while you were there the men worked voluntarily, that they followed and obeyed your requests, and were courteous, and that after you left they were insolent and showed insubordination and refused to work when Dr. Cogswell told them to, to what would you ascribe that change?

A. I think if they received the same treatment I gave them, there would be no trouble.

Q. Well, vow, Mr. Galvin, you stated that at no time bad the Commissioners refused to comply perhaps before I ask you about that, I had better ask you this question : You knew Mr. McCaffrey ?

A. I knew him after he came down there to Long Island as a deputy — pot before.

Q. And you have spoken of Mr. McCaffrey, of his ability in in the discharge of his duties?

A. When did I speak about it?
Q. To the visitors. To Mrs. Evans.

A. I don't recollect it. I may have, but I don't seem to recollect it.

Q. Don't you recollect speaking to her about the ability and qualifications of Mr. McCaffrey?

A. I might have, but I don't recollect it.

Q. Don't you remember telling her what you thought of his ability and qualifications ?

A. No, sir ; but I will answer you now, Mr. Brandeis, that be performed his duties to my entire satisfaction during the time that I was there.

I found him a good man. What he was afterwards, I cannot account for,

Q. While you were there did you discover in Mr. McCaffrey auy qualities which would lead you to suspect him in any way?

A. For what?
Q. As to his truthfulness?
A. Never saw any reason why I should think so.

Q. Did you ever observe anything lacking in the faithful performance of his duties?

A. Never, sir.
Q. Did you find bim intelligent and efficient?
A. I did, sir.

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Q. You also expressed to Mrs. Evans your opinion in regard to Dr. Parker, whom you had occasion to observe from time to time?

A. Well, I don't recollect the conversation. I might have said something about Dr. Parker if the thing was brought before me.

Q. Well, it was brought to your attention ?

A. I might have, but I am getting old and my memory is not so good as it was fifty years ago, and I don't remember saying anything about it.

Q. What was your opinion in regard to him?
A. In what way?
Q. As to his ability? As to his qualifications for the position ?

A. I think for a young man he is possessed of a great amount of ability, as far as I have seen of him.

Q. And did he appear to be faithful in the discharge of his duties?

A. I thought so.
Q. Beg your pardon?
A. I thought so.

Q. He has occasion to come, also, to Rainsford Island now and then ?

A. He has, sir.

Q. And in the performance of his duties there, how has lie appeared ?

A. He gave entire satisfaction.

Q. Have you ever observed anything in Dr. Parker which would lead you to suspect his statements ? A. I never did, sir,

never did. The CHAIRMAN. If you prefer, you can sit down any time. The WITNESS, Thank you, sir ; thavk you.

Q. Now, Mr. Galvin, you stated that you received from the Board of Commissioners everything that you asked for except some heifers ?

A. I did, sir.

Q. Do you mean by that to say that you received everything promptly that you asked for?

A. I didn't say promptly.
Q. Well, how promptly did you receive things?

A. Well, we call for requisitions twice a month the 15th and the 1st. If I called for a thing on a requisition on the 15th, they are delivered before the 1st, as a general thing. If they were not, then I renewed my requisition for the 1st of the month; and it they didn't come I called for them again; and most generally they are furnished.

Q. Now, in regard to the things required for the proper management of the institution, did you mean to imply in the statement that you had obtained everything that you asked for? Did you mean to make any exceptions of any kind except the heifers ?

A. I don't make any exceptions at all, sir.

Q. And all the recommendations you made from time to time in regard to things needed for the proper administration and equipment of the institution were complied with by the Commissioners ?

A. What does Mr. Brandeis mean by equipment”?

Q. I mean the things that you need in every way for the proper care of the paupers and the proper administration of the business?

A. Yes, sir; I got everything that was veeded in the way of clothing, subsistence, and medicine -- everything, sir.

Q. Well, excepting, or in addition to, clothing, subsistence, and medicine, did you get everything you asked for?

A. What is there?
Q. Well, attendants - and buildings.

A. Well, I have got a peculiar method of running an institution. I don't know whether it is a good one or not; but I know it is an economical one. When inmates come down there sick, they are taken care of until they get well; and after they get well these inmates are made to work and earn their board

every one that is in the institution and I have always found that they were just as willing to work as these people whom you hire; and, to-morrow, for plain nurses give me the nurse which is cured down there instead of a nurse that you could get for $10 or $12 a month up here.

Q. Well, I asked you, not for your opinion in regard to nurses, but in regard to whether you bad received all you asked for in the way of equipment and buildings and nurses and attendants ?

A. I don't know that I ever asked for any nurses or matrons. I don't recollect it. I may have, but I don't recollect it.

Q. Well, was there anything in the way of economical and productive management of the place which you asked for and did not

anything that you scemed to think was necessary? A. I said I got everything I called for. Q. And your recommendatious were all acted upon, were they? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, in 1889, in your report submitted December 31, 1889, which was the first report that you submitted to the Commissiovers, you speak of the condition of the island; and with a view to its economical administration you say:

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I would recommend the putting up of some greenhouses for the raising of plants and flowers for the Boston market; hy so doing the old men could be kept employed in winter; the work would not be laborious, and their labor would be profitable.

Q. Was that recommendation of yours ever acted upon ?
A. It was vot a requisition.
Q. I didn't ask you in regard to a requisition.
A. I think you did, Mr. Brandeis, if I didn't make a mistake.
Q. • Recommendation was the language I used.
A. Well, I didu't understand you properly if that was the case.
Q. Your recoinmendations were not acted upon ?
A. That was my recommendation at that time, sir.
Q. Was it acted upon?
A. No, it was not.
Q. It was not?

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A. No, sir.

Ald. Lee. That is, he didn't get them ; but you don't know whether or not they were acted upon.

Mr. BRANDEIS. Not acted upon favorably.

Ald. LEE. Well, that would be a matter for the City Council to determine, pot for the Commissioners.

Mr. BRANDEIS. - The City Council or the Commissioners.

Ald. LEE. — No; they could not do it unless it was included in the amount allowed them after they bad submitted their estimates.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Now, you also say in that report : “I would also advocate the raising of small fruits, such as strawberries, raspberries, currants, etc.

A. That was in the general recommendation ; yes, sir.
Q. But was that done ?
A. That wasn't done.
Q. That wasn't done at all?
A. No, sir.
Q. Then, that, also, you have not obtained ?

A. No; but it doesn't amount to the ordering of a thing on a requisition, by any means.

Q. Then, perlaps, we haven't understood each other.
A. No, sir; that is it.
Q. Then you say in this same report:

6. The land is excellent, and capable of yielding very large crops by proper cultivation.” And then you go on from year to year recommending proper cultivation there. You didn't get it, did you?

A. What was the proper cultivation, apy more than what Mr. Brandeis said a few moments ago?

Q. Fertilizing the land. Wasn't that a pretty important thing?
4. Well, they do cultivate the land to a considerable extent.
Q. Fertilizing the land you thought was necessary?
A. Every farmer does it, I think.
Q. You didn't get the manure you wanted, did you?
A. I didn't call for it, did I?

Q. Well, let us see. That was 1889, when you first made that suggestion. Now, let us see what you said afterwards. Now, in the reports dated December 31, 1890, on page 108 of the Commissioners' report, you say:

The land on this farm is excellent, but previous to the city getting possession of it, did not receive proper care, as it was cultivated without being fertilized to any extent. Consequently its condition is poor, and in order 10 put this land in a proper state for cultivation, I would recommend procuriny the manure of a stable in the city of abont one hundred horses, and have it sent down by a lighter. By so doing, good crops can be obtained.

Q. Do you remember now that you did recommend that?
A. I remember that, sir.
Q. Then you did recommend it?

A. Well, I thought you were discussing the care of the inmates, and not the farm.

Q. Well, we are talking about the manure. Do you remember whether that was the last time you had occasion to recommend that?

A. No, I don't think so. There were more.

Q. Well, let us see whether it was or not, because we are on the question of economy now. Here, under date of December 31, 1891 - this is tbird appeal you say:

There is no reason why, with sufficient labor and proper care, this island should not repay a large percentage of the present cost of maintenance. At the time of its purchase by the city of Boston, the land was in an impoverished condition, and it still requires a large amount of fertilizer to make it fully productive. By permitting the raising of small fruits, plants, and flowers for the market, a considerable sum would doubtless be realized.

You still insist upon that as the economical and proper management of the place, in spite of the treatment which your recommendations had received ?

A. Some people wouldn't call that economy, would they?
R. Didn't you consider it so?

A. Well, I am only one individual ; but the Commissioners, I suppose, thought otherwise.

Q. But you still insisted upon that, didn't you?
A. I insisted ; but three heads are better than one, sir.

Q. Now, let us see whether you didn't continue to insist upon it. Let us see what you said the next time. This is under date of February 1, 1893, just before your valedictory. You there say:

I should recommend that some method be adopted for procuring a more liberal supply of manure for this island, as our facilities are not sufficient to procure enough fertilizers to feed this hungry land.

So that you adhered to that view until the end?
A. So it appears, sir; so it appears.

Q. And your idea in renewing that recommendation was with a view to economy.

That is true, isn't it? A. That is true; yes, sir.

Q. Well, that is not the only recommendation that you made with a view to economy?

A. There may be more probably there are.

Q. You made soine more recommendations in regard to the economical management of the place?

A. Do you call that economy? The Commission, as I said before, diln't call it economy,

Q. Well, it is economical, isn't it, to get the best value you can out of lanrl and pay the cost of maintenance?

A. We'l, the Commissioners thought different.

Q. Well, wliy did you insist after they had refused? You are not so obstinate as all that?

A. I am pretty obstinate when I set out.
Q. But you think now that you were wrong?
A. No, sir - I beg your pardon.
Q. You think you were right, still?
A. I think I am riglit, sir.

Q. That recommendation that you put in four consecutive reports you think is right?

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