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Q. What do you give Dr. McLaughlin?

A. I guess you have got the opinion of Dr. McLaughlin before


Q. Well, he said this very thing, didn't he?

A. What very thing?

Q. That the building was a disgrace as a hospital?

A. Well, if you had no other building what could you do, supposing it was such a place?

Ald. BARRY. I would like to say a word right here, Mr. Brandeis. The Commissioners, of course you know, always stipulated in the report that they ought to have these things done, as the City Hospital has, for nearly ten years.

Mr. BRANDeis. Yes, sir.

Ald. BARRY. They have done the same thing, and it is only in the last two years that the City Hospital people have got what they have been asking for, and it was only because they did't have the finances to do it with.

Mr. BRANDEIS. I fully appreciate and I see, Mr. Alderman, that you do not apprehend the purpose of my question.

Ald. BARRY. - I am only anxious to get through the investigation.

Mr. BRANdeis. I know, but you are anxious also to get the real facts, and I will tell you the purpose of the question.


The question ought not to go back to the old

building. Ald. BARRY. I think every member of the committee understands that that building was not a fit building at that time to be used. We feel that way about it.

Mr. BRANDEIS. I am not trying to blame the government, because if the building had not been thought unfit they would not have appropriated a large sum for another. I am fully aware of that fact. But I believe this witness, under the guidance of counsel, has made a statement which I do not believe he will insist upon that Mr. Brownell's and Mrs. Lincoln's statements were groundiess.

Mr. REED. — I don't think he said anything of the kind. - I think he did.


The WITNESS. I beg your pardon, sir. With regard to Mr. Brownell, I think he made statements entirely uncalled for and which he had no reason to make. He searched as much as he could to find some vermin in that institution and failed to do so, and finally, after doing all he could, upsetting a dozen beds, as he said, he could not find the sign of a vermin only in one place, where he thought he found the tracks of a bug. Now, if you will go into the best hotel in Boston, you gentlemen or ladies who are in the habit of travelling, you will find bugs sometimes in the best hotels.

Mr. RILEY.- Big bugs.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) I hope not.

A. I think so in the best hotels in Boston, as good hotels as we have got.

Q. I hope not, but, Mr. Galvin, what I am endeavoring to

direct my attention to is to ascertain whether you meant to imply that Mrs. Lincoln's criticisms were groundless?

A. No, I have more respect for Mrs. Lincoln than to think that anything she says is groundless. Mrs. Lincoln is a lady I have great respect for, sir, and I never should be here sir, to-night, only for the statement Mrs. Lincoln made in regard to the filth and the inmates not getting enough food. I should never have appeared here as a witness but for that.

Q. But you quite admit that Mrs. Lincoln's statements in regard to various defects and needs of the institution, other than that which you have just spoken of, are well founded ?

4. Mrs. Lincoln is a lady possessed of a great deal of judgment and I would give a good deal for her judgment. I would say that, sir; but probably she is as liable to make mistakes as other ladies.

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Q. Well, now, you not only credit very highly her judgment A. I do, sir.

Q. But you also know that she has made a special investigation and study of this particular problem, hasn't she?

A. It appears so.

Q. In connection with these institutions?

A. It appears she has, sir.

Q. Well, you know she was there frequently herself?

A. Well, I think she has a perfect right to, and I will give you my reason for it.

Q. Go ahead.

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A. Mrs. Lincoln keeps a number of houses to let. Mrs. Lincoln is a thorough business woman and she demands her rent in advance; and as soon as these poor people are not able to pay the rents in advance she is condescending enough to send them to the poor-house, and, consequently, she goes to see them there.

Q. You mean she comes to see the people there?

A. I think she is interested in that way, sir, as much as any other. That is my impression. I may be wrong.

Q. I guess you are wrong.

4. I am sorry if I am, sir. Now, let me ask you

Q. If I testify later, I will be happy to answer questions, but now you are answering my questions.

Now, will you tell me some of the poor people whom Mrs. Lincoln turned out of her tenementhouses?

A. I didn't say she turned out any.

Q. Well, didn't you mean to imply it?

A. Had to leave-I don't know whether she put them out or


Q. Name one?

A. I will name one, if it is any satisfaction to you, sir.

Q. Who is it?

A. The lady mentioned here last night.

Q. Can you tell me the facts in regard to that?

A. I can't tell you the facts, but I think it was admitted by

Mrs. Lincoln that the lady was a tenant of hers for years. And as soon as she wasn't able to pay her rent in advance she had to get another residence somewhere else and Mrs. Lincoln took her to the poor-house.

Q. You know about that?

A. I received her at Austin Farm, through Mrs. Lincoln.

Q. (By Ald. Barry.) How do you know that she was a tenant?

A. She was a tenant, as Mrs. Lincoln admitted herself, and a nephew of hers is at Rainsford Island now, and he was a tenant also of hers.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Now, Mr. Galvin, do you want this committee to believe that in your opinion Mrs. Lincoln's interest in the institutions on Long Island and Rainsford Island is for any such reason as you have alleged?

A. I don't know that it is so.

Q. What do you think of Mrs. Lincoln's interest in those institutions?

A. I don't know what her reasons are, I say that for one, and I don't change it.

Q. What?

A. What I have said.

Q. You think she is interested in those institutions because she wants to see them bettered, don't you?

A. I don't think she can make them any better by doing what she is doing.

Q. Why not?

A. Because the less hatred is aroused in regard to taking care of the institutions the better they will be taken care of

Q. I asked you if some things would be done if she didn't call attention to them?

A. Would be done just the same if she didn't call attention to them.

Q. Did you call attention to them?

A. To what?

Q. Do you think it is desirable to have fire-escapes at Rainsford Island?

A. Well, it may be desirable.

Q. Well, is it? Do you have any doubt about it?

A. It is desirable to have fire-escapes on all buildings, I suppose.

Q. And they have put them down on Rainsford Island recently, haven't they?

A. You say so.

Q. Well, you know whether they have or not?

A. You say they did.

Q. Well, is it a fact?

A. Yes, it is a fact.

Q, When were they put there?

A. Oh, within a year, some of them.

Q. Yes, and you have had charge of Rainsford Island how


A. About six years.

Q. Did you ever recommend those fire-escapes at Rainsford Island?

d. I did not; did want a fire escape at Long Island.

2. I am asking now about Rainsford Island, which has been under your charge. You didn't recommend that?

A. No, sir.

Q. What did the Fire Commissioners or their agent who went down there say about the necessity of fire-escapes at Rainsford Island?

4. Said it was required.

Q. Was that all

strongly on the subject?

A. I guess so.

Q. What did he say?


Didn't he speak rather

A. I don't recollect now.

Q. He spoke in the strongest possible terms, didn't he, as to the necessity of that, and upon receiving his report did not the mayor immediately order the fire-escapes put in?

A. Yes, sir; I think so.

Q. And that was complied with in every respect?

A. Yes, sir I think so.

Q. Now, I ask you if Mrs. Lincoln hadn't been urging those fire-escapes, the necessity of which you have ignored, in the papers for years and to the Commissioners?

4. How do you know I ignored them?

Q. You say you never recommended them?
A. I never did.

Q. Then you ignored them, didn't you?
A. Yes.

Q. Now, hasn't Mrs. Lincoln urged the necessity of good nursing and more attendance down there?

A. I suppose she has.

Q. Was she right?

4. And she recommended trained nurses.

Q. Was she right?

A. No.

Q. That is a matter of the hospital, is it?

A. Yes, sir, of the hospital?

Q. And you go by what your physicians say?

4. At her suggestion we had trained nurses at Austin Farm, and when you get one trained nurse you have to have two to wait upon them.

2. Now, let us see what your physicians say, for whom you have so much respect?

A. In favor of it-I understand that.

Q. You have said that you have a great deal of respect for the physicians who have been at the head of the hospital?

A. I have.

Q. Now, take the first one, Dr. McLaughlin?

4. That is correct.

This is addressed to you, in the report of 1888:

You may have remarked, also, how, oftentimes, since the establishment of our institution, there was a difficulty connected with the obtaining of capable hospital attendants to perform the work we wish them to do, so many aged and feeble are there here. An efficient corps of nurses or attendants, trained to intelligently perform the work connected with the care of the sick, is an object we earnestly look forward to seeing obtained. As it is now, our only available nurses are compelled to perform both day and night duty.

Do you remember that?

A. I do.

Q. Now, see whether you remember this, in the report of December 31, 1891. This is by the other eminent physician, Dr. Harkins :

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Again, I would recommend the appointment of several female nurses, whose compensation might be necessarily small on account of the instruction which they would receive and the benefit which they would derive from their experience and instruction in the care of both male and female patients. A woman can accomplish much more than a man in caring for the sick."

Now, Mr. Galvin, that statement, which was made by Dr. Harkins, was repeating and reaffirming what Dr. McLaughlin had said two years before, and also made to you, too, wasn't it? A. What is that?

Q. That statement was made directly to you before that time? A. Yes; that is correct, sir.

Q. When was it made to you?

A. You have got the date there.

Q. When was it?

A. I don't recollect the date of it now. You have got it there. Q. Now, I will ask you if this was not what was said :


SEPTEMBER 11, 1891.

DEAR SIR: In view of the large number of patients now being treated in the Hospital Departments (the largest number at this season of year since the establishment of the Institution), and on account of the nature of the work to be performed, I would respectfully recommend an increase in the corps of attendants, as follows:

(1.) Another female attendant in the women's ward at Long Island. There are at present sixty-one woman in this ward, too many by far to be properly cared for by one attendant.

(2.) Another male attendant in the men's wards at Long Island, where at present our attendant is responsible for ninety-seven (97) patients.

(3.) A cook, whose sole duty shall be to attend to the diets for the Hospital Department. This work is now being done very satisfactorily by inmates. (4.) A female night attendant at the Rainsford Island Hospital. It is necessary that the attendants here perform both day and night duty, and this, we cannot in reason expect them to do.

(5.) A female day attendant at the Infirmary, so called, at Rainsford Island. Here the attendant is obliged, in addition to her duties in caring for the sick, to take care of the laundry, and three institution dormitories besides.

(6.) A female night attendant at the Infirmary. At present there is no paid attendant or watchman on Rainsford Island who is responsible after 8 P.M.

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(7.) I would also suggest the propriety of appointing some one a special policeman on Long Island. Occasions, by no means few, have arisen where the physicians and deputy have been obliged to do police duty.

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