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Q. Simply from the bottles and the labels ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you found them the same as you would see in an apothecary shop?

A. Yes, they presented the same appearance.

Q. Of course, I didu't suppose you tasted all the various medicines that were there, simply the general knowledge that you had gained from your observation.

Mr. Riley. - If he had he probably wouldn't be here.

Mr. REED. – I don't think that is a fair remark to make to the doctor here.

Q. Did you notice the hospital equipment!
A. With reference to what?
Q. With reference to the instruments ?
A. I saw the instruments.

Q. The surgical instruments. And how would you characterize that supply of instruments, as meagre or as abundant, for purpose for which they would be needed?

Ă. I should say there was a considerable supply of instruments.
Q. Well, where were the instruments kept?
Å. In the operating-room.
Q. There is an operating-room, then, in the hospital?

There is.
Q. And is there an operating-table there?
A. There is.
Q. Did you see the ether there in the operating-room ?
A. I didn't notice any ether.
Q. Didn't notice whether there was or not?
d. I did not.

Q. Now, as to the attendance of the nurses - did you see any nurses there?

A. I did.
Q. Were you informed as to the number of nurses ?
A. I don't remember of being so informed.

@ Well, taking the diseases as you found them, what should you say would be necessary in the way of nurses for the proper care of the patients ?

d. As I recollect I should have said a nurse to each ward would have been sufficient.

Q. As to the food -- did you see any of the food which was supplied to the patients in the hospital ?

A. I did.
Q. Did you examine it, look at it?
A. I did.

Q. What is your opinion as to the food whether it was proper food for the people treated there or improper food ?

A. I saw steak, I saw fish, I saw bean soup, bread -- all seemed to be of a good quality so far as I could judge. I tasted only the bean soup. That was not unpleasant to the taste.

Q. As to the cleanliness of the hospital ?
A. I think it was very clean.
Q. The sanitary arrangements ?
A. They seemed to be very good.
Q. Did they have bath-rooms?
A. They did.
Q. Water-closets ?
A. Yes.
2. Were they in good condition?
4. They seemed to be.

Q. Now, will you speak of the ventilation, do you remember the system of ventilation, the method ?

A. Not in detail. I remember that there was fresh air coming into the ward, and I was impressed with the fact that the wards were exceedingly well ventilated.

Q. Was your attention called to the floors particularly ?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. But there was nothing improper that you noticed about the floors ?
A. There was not.

Q. Now, as to the bedding, the beds and the bedding, did you examine them?

A. I did.

Q. And what do you say as to their convenience for the purposes for which they were used ?

4. I should say the beds seemed to be comfortable and the bedding seemed to be clean and enough of it.

Q. Take the building as a whole, the hospital building, I would like to know, doctor, your opinion of that building as a hospital.

A. My impression is that it was an excellent building. It was roomy, well lighted, and well ventilated, clean — possibly a little crowded as to the number of inmates, but that would have aflected ventilation more particularly, and there were enough windows that could have been opened if necessary to provide certainly more air than there is in this room now.

Mr. RILEY. That is a good criticism, surely.

Q. (By Mr. REED.) When you visited the hospital did you noiice or were you informed that an additional wing was being built for the accommodation of patients who were crowded in the wards which you visited ?

A. I saw a new building in process of construction to the west, if I renember right.

Q. Then when the new wing is completed the crowded condition which you noticed there can be remedied. Did you learn as to the medical staff, what the organization was, how many physicians, etc. ?

A. I was informed on that point. I think there were either two or three physicians whom I understood were under Dr. Cogswell's supervision.

Q. The first time you visited the hospital there were two assistant physicians under Dr. Cogswell, were there not?

Ă. say I do not remember, two or tliree — but it seemed to me a sufficient number of assistants to carry on such work, medical work, as I saw was needed there.

Q. Let us see if I understand you, doctor. Assuming that there were two doctors as assistants to Dr. Cogswell in that hospital, the first time you visited it, would that be a proper number of physicians for the work ?

A. I should judge so.

Q. Your judgment would be that that would be a proper medical staff?

A. It is.

Q. Do you remember whether you saw a bristle probang there aniong the instruments ?

A. That I don't remember, exactly. The question was raised, but I don't remember whether I actually saw the probang or not.

Q. Did you see any surgical sponges there?

A. I don't remember that that question was raised. That question of surgical sponges is rather indefinite, anyway There are a variety of sponges that are used for surgical purposes. I don't know anything that would go by the name of a surgical sponge. Q. You don't know anything that would go under that name?

A rariety of sponges are used for that.
Q. In your judgment, are surgical sponges necessary ?


A. Sponges are necessary for surgical purposes; yes, sir sponges of some sort. Sponging material, I should say — not necessarily sea sponges.

Q. Well, I was about to ask you, doctor, if, in your judgment, for ordinary purposes absorbent cotton would not be proper to be used as sponges?

It would be very useful. Q. Now, something has been said, doctor, as to the healing properties of aristol and iodoform. I would like to ask your opinion upon that question ?

A. The one is the equivalent of the other. Iodoform was first introduced, and then aristol.

Q. Well, can you tell me, doctor, what are the properties of sulphonal, and it special use ?

A. It is specially to promote sleep in wakeful persons.

Q. Is that ordinarily used for preventing pains - for quieting pains?

4. It is not.

Q. Now, I want to ask you, doctor, if this is something the use of which is well understood among physicians ?

A. Sulphonal?
Q. Yes, sir.
d. Yes.
Q. (By Mr. RILEY.) That is something recent, isn't it, doctor ?
A. Oh, yes, it is a recent discovery.
Q. (By Mr. REED.) How recent would you say, doctor?
X. ì should say within the last three years, perhaps.

Q. But within that time the use of that drug has become well known, and its purposes ?

A. Yes.

Q. The first time you went there, doctor, did you visit the institution building ?

A. Yes, a large brick building.
Q. You did ?
A. I did; yes, sir.

Q. And if you recollect, I would like to have you tell us in what condition you found that building as to cleanliness ?

A. It seemed to me clean.
Q. Did you go into the dining-room?
A. I did. The men were dining at the time I went in there.
Q. They were dining at that time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember what they had for dinner?
4. I have a special recollection of this bean soup or porridge.
Q Was that the time you tasted the bean soup?
A. It was.

Q. And what was the occasion of your tasting of the bean soup that day?

A. I went out with Dr. Cogswell and saw this porridge, which he told me was soup which was intended for the dinner of the people

for the men and all those who were supposed not to require special diet; and I understood him to ask, or at least the question was asked, whether there was any reason to complain of that. I tasted it, and I saw no reason to complain of it as being soup or porridge.

Q. Was there any complaint made in regard to it by the inmates that day, do you recollect ?

4. I heard no complaint made. At least I have no recollection of hearing it.

Q. But you tasted the bean soup that day and pronounced it good ? d. I did.

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Q. Well, then, the second time you visited the institution was later in the year. Do you remember how long ago that was ?

A. Within a few weeks.

Q. A few weeks ago. Did you notice any changes in or about the hospital the second time?

Å. I have no recollection of any special change.

Q. Was the general appearance of the hospital about the sanie as to cleanliness?

A. I do not remember at the time making any comparisons between it and the previous visit.

Q. Did you notice the character of the diseases on this second visit?
A. I did.
Q. And what, in your judgment, was the character of these diseases ?
Ă. Chronic cases, mostly.

Q. Chronic cases. Do you remember any acute cases on the second visit?

A. There may bave been possibly one or two, but no considerable number of acute cases.

Q And as to the number of patients in bed? Have you any recollection, or did you make any count so that you could tell accurately the number?

A. I didn't. I answered that question earlier, I think.

Q. Oh, that was the first visit I was asking about then. I didn't know but at the later visit you might have made some.

A. My remark applied indifferently to either visit - at least, I intended it to.

Q. Well, as to the nursing?. Had there been any change in that regard?

A. My answer to that question was the same. I didn't understand that I was to specialize or particularize between the visits. The answers I gave are general impressions, without respect to any one of the visits, or either of them.

Q. Then you don't recollect any specific thing that was different at the second visit from what it was at the first ?

A. They had fish for dinner, instead of soup, I think.
Q. You remember they had a fish dinner the second day?
A. I remember that.
Q. Did you taste of any of the food the second day?
A. I didn't.
Q. Well, what was the appearance of the food they had to eat?

A. It looked like fish. I saw no comment to make upon it. If I had been hungry I should have taken some of it without any objections.

Q. On the whole, then, doctor, you say that this hospital is a clean hospital, that the building is proper, that the equipment is sufficient, and that the medical attendance and the nurses are sufficient for the character of the diseases which the patients who are treated there have ? A.

I should say so.
Q. In addition to these things, there is another which I have not yet
mentioned – the records -- the clinical history of the cases.
attention called to the record ?

A. It was.
Q. And how far back did those records go, if you recollect?
A. That I don't recollect. .
Q. Well, what comment have you to make upon those records?

Ă. The comment that I should inake is, perhaps, that they were brief records.

Q. Your comment on the records would be that the clinical histories were brief. Taking the character of the cases treated in the bospital,

Was your all the diseases, or practically all the diseases being chronic, would not it follow that the histories would be brief, because there would be very little change from day to day ?

X. Very few changes are likely to occur.
Mr. REED. I think that is all, doctor.


Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Doctor, you have been somewhat interested in this investigation from the beginning ?

A. Not particularly interested.

Q. Well, you have known that the investigation had gone on for some three or four months before you went down there?

A. It had gone on for quite a while; yes.

Q. And you had never seen it until some three or four months after this investigation started, and until after the report of the special visiting committee had been published, in which the defects of this hospital had been pointed out?

A. Not for some time. I don't remember, of course, with relation to the report of the special visiting committee. I have not followed the investigation very closely.

Q. But you did go down after that document appeared, and after the criticisms made at these hearings had been reported in the papers, and after these various defects had been called to the attention of the Commissioners and the superintendent ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You went down there, you say, the first time in the beginning of the summer?

A. I did.
Q. Can you remember accurately the date ?
A. Not exactly.
Q. You cannot remember it?
4. I cannot.
2. How did you happen to go there?
A. At Dr. Cogswell's request.
Q. And was the time fixed when you were to go?
A. I was to state when I could come. I fixed upon a time.

Q. You fixed upon a time; and how long before you went down there did you fix upon the time of your going?

A. It may have been in the course of two or three days before I went some little time.

Q. Then the second time, how did you happen to go?
A. Arranged the same way.
Q. Dr. Cogswell requested you to go?
A. He did.

Q. And he requested you to fix in advance the time when you were to go dowo there?

4. He did.

Q. And there was ample time between the time of your giving him notice and the time of your actually going for him to clean up the hospital and get it in condition if that had been desired ?

s. There was.

Q. So that you, from your two visits, cannot form any opinion as to the general condition of the hospital as to cleanliness and the manner in which the hospital is kept ?

A. I can only speak from what I saw.

Q. Only on these days, iind the intention of your coming being regulated by Dr. Cogswell. Now, Dr. Fitz, when you went down there the first time, how long did you stay?

A. I think about a couple of hours.

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