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Mr. RILEY. (Referring to a document in Mr. Reed's hand.) What is that?

Mr. REED. A typewritten copy:
Mr. RILEY. Of what?
Mr. REED. Of this report.
Mr. RILEY. Oh, yes, there are two of them.
Mr. REED. Yes, sir; this belongs to me.
Mr. RILEY. - I see.
Mr. REED. And this belongs to the doctor or the Commissioners.
Mr. RILEY. – I don't wonder that you gentlemen laugh.

Mr. PROCTOR. Well, I laugh at your objecting to Mr. Reed's having a copy.

Mr. RILEY. - I wish you would be careful and see that every line of that is published in the newspapers to-morrow.

Mr. REED. Yes, if I can get it there.
Mr. RILEY. At so much per line.
Mr. PROCTOR. — We can get it in cheaper than that.
Mr. Reed. We haven't adopted your methods yet, sir.

Q. Since your examination of the institutions in 1891, doctor, I presume that you have visited these institutions frequently, have you not?

A. I shouldn't say that I have been there frequently. I think I have been two or three times, possibly.

Q. You have been two or three times ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, within the past year have you visited the hospital at Long Island ?

A. I was down at the hospital at Long Island about six weeks ago.

Q. And previous to that time had you visited the new hospital on Long Island?

A. Well, not since it was opened.
Q. That is the first time you have been there since it was opened?
A. Yes.

Q. And at that time, I presume, you went there at the request of Dr. Cogswell, did you not ?

A. I did.

Q. And you notified Dr. Cogswell, I presume, sometime in advance that you were coming, did you not?

A. I don't remember just about that. I should say that — well, I think the "c

“ Vigilant came up about an hour before I went down, although I can't say positively about that.

Q. You went down on the • Vigilant":
A. Yes.
Q. And you have made an examination of the hospital?
A. I have -- I did, rather.

Q. Now, what did you find to be the character of diseases in the hospital at Long Island at your last visit?

A. They are principally chronic diseases.

Q. Do you remember of having your attention called to any acute diseases or did you notice any ?

A. I don't remember any acute disease, unless you speak of a woman who had just been confined. That is hardly an acute disease, but she was in an acute puerperal condition.

Q. There was a case of that kind there?
A. Yes; of a woman who had been confined shortly before.
Q. Was that case in the nursery at the left of the corridor?
A. It was.
Q. Did you visit the other wards, the three wards ?
A. Yes; went through the three wards.
Q. And what was the number of patients in the hospital that day?

A. I should say between seventy and eighty that day, although I may be in error, because I haven't my notebook with me.

d. And how many of those were confined to their beds?

A. There were comparatively few confined to their beds. That is to say, they were in bed, but they were not acutely ill.

Q. Do you remember how many nurses were employed there at that time?

A. I don't remember. I should say that there was one head nurse

at least a woman that was called the bead nuse to perhaps twentyfive or thirty patients. That is my impression.

Q. There was a female nurse in each female ward ?
A. Yes.
Q. And a male nurse in the male ward?
A. Yes.

Q. For the proper care of the cases which you saw there and the patients which you saw there, should you say that there were sufficient nurses ?

A. Seemed to me that there were.

Q. Did you make any examination of the food which was provided for these patients ?

A. As far as the food of the patients is concerned, I tasted the bread. I looked at the coffee and I tasted the coffee - it wasn't made, but I tasted the coffee. It seemed to me that the bread was good, sweet, and wholesome. The coffee was good so far as one could teli by tasting raw coffee, uncooked coffee wasn't burned, of course unboiled coffee.

Q. Did you see any beefsteaks about there that day?
A. I don't remember that I saw any.
Q. Do you remenber what they had for dinner?

A. I don't remember what the diet list was. This was along about one o'clock I should say

the dinner was over. Q. It wasn't the dinner-time? A. No.

Q. From what you saw of the food would you say that the quality was good and proper for the patients ?

A. What I saw the quality was good and proper quantity:

Q. Did you make any examination of the bedding and beds provided in the hospital?

A. I did.
Q. And what was your judgment as to that?

A. I thought that they were comfortable beds in the hospital. They were wire-woren mattresses with a mattress on the top of the wirewoven mattress a great deal thicker than they have at the City Hospital.

Q. And the ventilation, was that a subject of examination by you? A. It was.

Q. Well, what is your judgment is to the ventilation of that building?

A. You are speaking of the hospital?
Q. Of the hospital, yes.
A. You mean the new hospital or the old one?
Q. The new one?

A. I should say the ventilation was very good. Avd as to the cleanliness of the wards

Q. The wards were cleanly?
A. They were as cleanly as any wards of any hospital.

Q. Now, did you discover any bathing apparatus in the open wards?

A. Did not.
Q. Did you find bath-rooms and bath tubs elsewhere?
A. I did.

Q. And were they in proper and convenient places ?

A. They were in convenient places and the bath-tubs were clean and remarkably good bath-tubs.

Q. Did you look at the supply of surgical instruments ?
A. I did.
Q. And what was the nature of the supplies?

A. There seemed to be a supply there sufficient for any emergency – of course not such a supply as they would have at the Massachusetts General, because people don't go down there for the special purpose of an operation, but I lidn't notice the lack of anything that would be required in an emergency,

Q. And did you visit the pharmacy ?
A. I did.
Q. Where the medicines were kept?
A. Yes.
Q. What kind of a supply of medicines did they have?
A. They had a sufficient supply:
Q. Did you make any examination of the hospital records?
A. I did.
Q. And what do you say as to them?

A. They seemed to be well kept. The disease and the name of the patient and all that is absolutely necessary for records I saw in quite a number of cases.

Q. Did you make any inquiries or were you informed as to the medical staff in charge of the hospital ?

A. I understood that there was a resident physician and two medical oflicers.

Q. Now, in your judgment was that a sufficient medical staff to properly care for the receive persons in that hospital?

A. For people sick with chronic diseases I should say, Yes.

Q. When you speak of chronic diseases do you mean such diseases as you found there?

Å. Such as I found there.
Q. Do you remember how far back these medical records went ?
A. I do not.

Q. Then do I state it correctly, doctor, when I say that on the whole you found a proper building there for a hospital, a well-ventilated hospital, a well-equipped hospital, and, so far as you could observe, a well-managed hospital for the treatment of the cases that were obliged to be there?

A. That is my opinion.


Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) You were there how long ago, doctor?
21. À bout six weeks ago, I shoulıl sily.
Q. And you went at the request of Dr. Cogswell?
A. I did.
Q. How long before you went there did he request you to go?

A. That particular day 1 should say it might have been an hour may possibly have been an hour and a half.

Q. You don't know how much the hospital was furnished up and got in condition before you went down there?

A. I don't know anything about that at all. I am telling you all I know.

Q. All you say is, that from what you saw when you went down there it was clean ?

A. Clean.
Q. And well ventilated ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you went down there within a very few hours, at all events, of the time Dr. Cogswell requested you. Is that the fact?

A. Yes, sir; that is the fact. Q. Now, in your report in regard to the hospital, of 1891, you speak of its showing the presence of a careful, painstaking, and scientific medical officer ?

A. Yes.
Q. To whom did you refer?
A. Dr. Harkins was there.

Q. Well, you consider that he was a careful, painstaking, and scientific medical officer?

A. I have always so considered him.
Q. And you have had some acquaintance with him ?
A. I have.

Q. He has been in your department, too, hasn't he, in the Board of Health ?

A. He was.
Q. And you have had occasion to observe him ?
A. I have.

Q. And you would have confidence in his judgment in medical matters?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, now, you apparently found fault at that time with the absence of a sufficient number of paid nurses ?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you remember anything more specific in regard to that why you considered the number insufficient?

A. At this length of time I couldn't state don't know what the number was.

Q. Dr. Harkins speaks of sixty-one patients to one nurse in Ward 7 at Long Island. Is that what you had in mind ?

A. Well, I say I can't remember. That was three years ago, and when I wrote the report it was based on the facts.

Q. Then he speaks in another case of 115 patients in Wards 6 and 8 under one nurse. Is that what you had in mind ?

A. Well, that would depend altogether on the class of cases. It is impossible to answer those things.

Q. I mean in the main wards there?

A. It is impossible to answer such a question without knowing what the nature of the cases is.

Q. You know the nature of the cases you were examining there? A. I know the nature of the cases I was examining at that time.

Q. Well, that is precisely the time you were down there. This letter was written in the fall of 1891. One is September 11 and the other October 19. They are just on either side of the date of the doctor's investigation.

A: I can readily understand how a nurse with plenty of assistance from the other patients who were not specially ill could get along with that number.

Q. Well, why did you say there wasn't enough?
A. I did say so in my report.
Q. Well, why did you say so?
A. Because I thought there were not enough.
Q. Well, why did you think so?

A. I don't know as it is any of your business why I thought so. If I did think so, that was my opinion, and if you don't like it you needn't ask me.

Q. I like it very much it coincides with my own.

A. Then it must have been a great mistake if I ever coincided with an opinion you expressed.


Q. Oh, don't!

A. Well, I didn't come up here to be brow-beaten by you, and I don't intend to be, either. I will appeal to the committee if I am to be subjected to this foolish nonsense.

Q. Well, doctor, that isn't polite.

A. I don't care if it is polite or not. If it isn't, you can make the most of it.

Q. Well, I will make the most of it by being very polite to you. What I am desiring to find out, doctor, is, what facts were in your mind when you gave that valuable opinion in regard to the number of nurses?

A. I have told you that I wrote that report three years ago. I don't know just what the facts were.

Q. Yes. Now, I am endeavoring to refresh your recollection, and I thought that, in the customary way, by suggesting the fact, or suggesting some fact to you, you might be able to recall what, in the multitude of your duties, undoubtedly has escaped from your memory. I now ask you whether one of the facts which you bail in your mind letting your mind dwell upon that visit – whether one of the facts you had in mind was that there were 115 patients in the male wards and a single nurse?

A. I don't know how many patients there were at that time, hare no remembrance of the number of patients at that time.

Q. Then that statement does not recall anything to your mind ?
A. It does not.

Q Does it recall anything to your mind in regard to the infirmary wird. the one nurse ind forty-itü patients, called upon also to do the laundry wishing, and to take charge uf three sleeping durmitories in addition to the infirmary?

A. That is something I know nothing about.
Q. You don't remember anything about that ?

I say I remember nothing about it. Q. Did you make any memorandi or notes other than what appear in this report?

A. I presume I did; I don't remember. I can't say positively.

Q. You speak in regard to the sanitary arrangements on Rainsford Island, and under date of January 27, 1892, about four months after the date of your report, Dr. Harkins speaks in a letter to one of the Commissioners of " 1:20 women in attics and no closet or sink; 70 women in dormitories of White House with one closet, and this latter also the only one available for women in the sewing-room." Does that recall to you any facts in relation to that?

A. I don't know what you mean by the “ infirmary." It is an attempt on your part to call buildings by names they didn't have at that time.

Q. I am making no attempt. I am reading this letter and the word “ infirmary" didn't appear in it. I will read it again, doctor, as there seems to be some misapprehension; “ 125 women in atties and no closet or sink; 70 women in dormitories of White House with one closet, and this latter also the only one available for women in the sewing-room."

A. I dou't know what you mean by “ The White House."
Q. You don't know that?
A. No, I don't. .
Q. Don't know what it refers to?
A. I don't know.

Q. Then the only visit you made was that single visit and you had not familiarized yourself with the nomenclature of the buildings on the islind?

A. Those names were not giren me at all.

Q. Well, when you went down there with whom were you when you went down to make that visit?


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