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told them that they might take their children with them in the hospital, and leave them in the maternity ward, and they did so. At that time there was a child there suffering from noma or cancrum oris, and they got it into their heads that the child was syphilitic, and they objected to having their children stay there, and that is how, I suppose, McCaffrey got the opinion that there were syphilitic patients there, But there are no syphilitic patients there. They are in a ward that is entirely separate and distinct from that, on the other side of the corridor.

Q. That is, the maternity ward is on one side of the corridor, and the syphilitic ward on the other side, in the hospital?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, the nursery ward in the main building is said by some witnesses who have testified here to be without means of ventilation except by the windows. Is that true of that ward now?

A. No, sir, it is not.

Q. Are the two large ventilators which have been described still in the ceiling of that nursery ward? A. They are.

And those two ventilators are connected through the roof with the outside air?

A. They are.
Q. You may sit, doctor, if you prefer.
A. Well, I will stand up for awhile.

As to the method of ventilating the infirmary wards in the main building, is there any method excepting by the windows?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is it?

A. There are three large ventilators in each infirinary ward which open into the attic. The attic is a very large one, with a great many windows in it, and these windows are kept open, and in that way there is a fair ventilation of those wards.

Q. How many exits are there, doctor, from the main institution building?

A. There are let's see, what do you mean by that? How many doors?

Q. Yes.
A.
Let's see

nine.
Q. And how many flights of stairs leading from the top of the
building to the ground, from the third story?

A. From the third story there are fire.
Q. Five?
A. Five staircases, four iron and one wooden.

Q. Ale the iron staircases located one at each end of the main building, two in the middle of the main building, and one at the rear ?

A. The four irou staircases are located one at each end of the main wing and two in the centre, and the one on what might be called the dining hall wing is of wood.

Q. Are the four iron staircases enclosed in fire-proof walls ?
A. They are.
Q. Are there any other fire-escapes than these on the main building ?
A. There are not.

Q. Now, you have recently had constructed a new dormitory at Long Island. Will you tell me whether there are any fire-escapes on that building?

A. No external fire-escapes.
Q. And why is that?

A. Well, because with the class of people that we have down there I don't think they would be able to use such a fire-escape as is ordinarily put on the cutside oť a building.

Q. This is a two-story building, is it not- this new building?

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A. It is the new building.
Q. And the hospital is one story?
A. It is.

Q. The lack of fire ladders has been commented on here. Will you tell me how many fire ladders you have ?

A. We have to-day eight.
(Ald. LEE in the Chair.)
Q. How many did you have when you went there?

A. When I went there I don't think that there were any ladders that could be properly called fire ladders. We had ladders there but they wouldn't be classed as fire ladders.

Q How soon then did you procure some ladders, fire ladders ?
A. About six months.
Q. And how many did you get then?
A. Six.
Q. That is, in October, 1893, you got six fire ladders ?
A. We did.
Q. And that was long before the beginning of this investigation ?
A. It was.

Q. Now, since the beginning of this investigation how many fire ladders have you purchased ?

A. Since the beginning of the Aldermanic investigation ?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. None.
Q. None ?

A. None. That is my impression. I wouldn't be exact as to that, but my impression is that the two extension ladders that we purchased upon the recommendation of the district fire chief Egan were purchased before this investigation began. That is

That is my impression. Q. Then, if I understand you correctly, District Chief Egan recommended the purchese of two fire ladders, extension fire ladders, and those two ladders were purchased on his recommendation ?

A. They were.

Q. And that is all you have added since your purchase of October, 1893.

A. It is.

Q. It has been said that you had a fire clown there in the roof of the hospital. Do you recollect that?

A. I do.
Q. How much damage was done to the building ?
A. Well, what do you mean by that — how much it cost us?

Q. That is what I would like to know, yes, and then I want you to describe the damage to the building, too.

A. It cost us about eight dollars to repair the damage.
Q. Who did the work?

A. The carpentering work was done by some prisoners from Deer Island and the plastering by some inmates of Long Island.

Q. Then you had among your inmates at that time some plasterers ?
A. We did.
Q. And they did the work of plastering ?
A. They did.

Q. And the inmates from Deer Island did the shingling on the roof?

A. They did.

Q. And all that you had to expend money for was your shingle and your material for plastering ?

A. That is all.

Q. Then there was a fire which destroyed the Snow Cottage, so called, and it is said that a very large amount of money had been expended on that cottage previous to the fire and the loss was very great.

A.

Do you recollect the extent of the repairs to that cottage before the
fire ?

A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. How much?

A. Oh, if you mean how much it cost in money I don't remember the exact figures, but I can tell you just what we did.

Q. Well, tell us what you did, then.

A. We did a little carpentering, fixing up the windows and blinds, and we plastered three ceilings, primed the whole building inside, put a tarred roof on the building, shingled the piazza, shingled the roof of the piazza, repaired the piazza itself to a slight extent and put part of the furnace in. Pretty much the whole furnace we had gotten in. Q. Practically how much did that cost?

Between $225 and $275. Q. And what should you say was the value of the building as it was repaired ?

Mr. RILEY. Stop a minute.

A. I am not an expert in those matters, but from my experience I should say it would cost about $1,800.

Mr. RILEY. Stop a minute, stop a minute, doctor. You remember, Mr. Chairman, that when we undertook to put in values by Mr. Ryerson it was ruled out because he was not an expert. Now, a ruling that is good enough for our side is good enough for theirs, and we object to this. He knows nothing about values.

Mr. REED. - When Dr. Parker was on the witness stand he testified as to the value of this building or as to the cost to repair the hospital after the fire, and it is for the purpose of contradicting him that I offer the testimony of this witness, who is certainly as good a witness as he

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Mr. RILEY. - Well, you cannot contradict testimony by a man who knows nothing about it. He knows nothing about the value.

The CHAIR. Well, we will take it for what it is worth.
Mr. RILEY. – Nothing.
The stenographer repeated the last question and answer.

Q (By Nir. REED.) When an objection is made, doctor, you had better stop until the chairman rules on it before answering the question. You say that $3,000 was an excessive value to place upon that building ?

A. I should.

Q. Mr. McCaffrey has testified that he undertook to put up some shelves in the hospital for potted plants and that you stopped him. Is that statement correct?

A. Well, I never stopped Mr. McCaffrey from putting in shelves for potted plants in the hospital

Q. Did you ever talk with him about it?
A. Not to my remembrance. I don't remember of having talked
with Mr. McCaffrey on the subject.

Q. Well, you and Dr. Dever discussed the matter, didn't you?
A. I don't think that Dr. Dever or I discussed it.
Q. But you and Dr. Parker discussed it?
A. We did.

Q. And did you and Dr. Parker decide that that was a thing that should not be done?

A. I did, yes.

Q. Do you remember Alexander Wallace, who was a patient in the hospital?

A. I do.
Q. Was Wallace an old man?
A.

He was.
Q. Some witness has testified here that the night before Wallace
died he was at work about the hospital. Is that true ?

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A. I don't see how it could be true.
Q. What was his condition for many days before he died ?

Well, he was confined to his bed.
Q. Well, then, I don't see how it could be true that he was at work
the night before he died?

A. I don't believe that he was. He never did work for a good many months — in fact, he never did any work while I was on the island. He was unable to. So it seems hardly probable that he would begin the night before he died.

Q, Did Mr. McCaffrey originate the idea to you of dividing the institution building vertically?

A. He did not.
Q. Where, if you remember, did you hear of that proposition ?
A. From the Commissioners.

Q. Then the Commissioners had that plan under consideration, did they ?

A. I think they did.

Q. And when the women were moved from Rainsford Island to Long Island, you discussed the matter with Mr. McCaffrey as to the best place to put those women, didn't you ?

A. I did.

Q. Your opinion was that the women should be put in the top of the building, and Mr. McCaffrey thought they should be placed in one end of the building. You decided that they should go in the top of the building, and that is the disposition that was made of them Is that correct?

A. That is correct. My idea was that they could be kept separate from the men much better confined to the upper floor of the institution than if they were placed on one side.

Q. The furnishing of your private apartments has been commented upon here, doctor. Now, I would like to ask you if all the furniture in the apartments occupied by you is owned by the city of Boston ?

A. It is not.

Q. Of the furniture that is used by you what proportion is owned by yourself and what proportion by the city in value?

A. About one-thirtieth.
Mr. RILEY. - One-thirtieth which way?
Q. (By Mr. REED.) Which way, doctor ?

A. Well, I own about $3,000 worth, and the city owns about $125 worth.

Q. Then practically all the furniture of any value in your private apartments is your own private property ?

A. It is.
Q. And your library in your office is your own private property ?
A. It is.
Q. (By Mr. RILEY.) And the big dog?
A. And the small one.
The CHAIR. Interruptions are not in order now.

Q. (By Mr. REED.) Now, as to your servants, doctor, how many servants have you?

A. I have got two just now.
Q. How many have you had at one time more than two ?
A. No, never had more than two.
Q. And what are those cook and second girl ?
A.

Cook and second girl.
Q. Now, does the city pay for those ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Entirely?
A. No, sir well, they do now.
Q. Did they always ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Then at some previous time you have paid a portion of the salary yourself?

A. I have.
Q. Now, what was that, doctor ?

A. By the wily, I do now, too. The city allows twenty-five dollars for a cook. I got a good cook. She wanted to leave because she didn't think she would like to spend the winter down there, so I told her I would raise her pay if she would stay. I though she was worth it to me, and she said she would, and so I paid her the advance. I didn't think it was right to ask the city to pay any more.

Q. Then the two McLaughlin girls have been mentioned as your servents, your private servants. Will you tell the committee what positions those two girls occupy there?

A. Well, one of them was my second girl, and the other one I hired for a helper or scrub woman to help the housekeeper and matron of the hospital, who at that time were having considerable trouble with the women over in the nursery, and we couldn't get them to do anything, so 1 at that time hired sometody to do the work that they refused to do.

Q. Then that second McLaughlin girl was in no sense your private servant?

A. No, none whatever.

Q. And Mrs. Stevens has been mentioned here as a servant in your household. Is that correct?

A. It is not.
Q. What was her position ?

A. She was housekeeper and matron for the hospital, and what you might call the other part of the administration building, other than my private apartments.

Q. And she had nothing to do whatever with your private apartments ?

A. No.

Q. Now, what instructions, if any, do you receive from the Commissioners as to the quality of the food that is furnished you by the people who have the contract ?

A. If it isn't satisfactory, if it isn't good, to send it back.
Q. And do you act upon those instructions ?
A. I do.

Q. Then when anything comes that isn't good, according to your judgment, you use every effort to have it replaced by that which is good?

A. I do.
Q. And that is your instruction from headquarters ?
A. It is.
Q. Now, how does the institution get water at Long Island ?
A. Why, from the city of Boston.
Q. A purchaser from the city of Boston ?

Yes, sir.
Q. At a yearly sum?
A. Yes, sir.

And you or your institution has nothing to do with the pipe – your department does not own the pipe and does not lay the pipe ?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. You are å taker of water exactly the same as any other water taker in the city ?

A.

Q. Something has been said, doctor, about a specch you made down here when you took charge. I wish you would relate the circumstances and then teil us what that speech wils.

A. Well, when I went over there on Monday afternoon Mr. Galvin

A.

Q.

We are.

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