Q. Eighteen now, and they are fit for service now?

A. Yes.

Q. So that that defect which he pointed out has been complied with. There are 500 feet of inch rubber hose, and that is kept in store cellar, and if needed would be useless, as there is not a play-pipe on the island." Has that defect which he pointed out been remedied?

4. If he says that he states what was not a fact.

Q. That is, was Egan prejudiced against you, too?

A. Not in the slightest.

Q. Did he have any grudge against you?

A. Not in the slightest.

Q. Well, is he also one of those unable to make proper investigation into facts?

A.

I wouldn't say as to that, but some of his statements there are not facts. If he says there were 500 feet of inch hose in the basement and no play-pipe on the island, he doesn't state the facts.

Q. There are 500 feet of inch rubber hose, and that is kept in store cellar, and if needed would be useless, as there is not a play-pipe on the island."

Ald. LEE. One inch?

Mr. BRANDEIS.

but I presume so.

Well, he says "inch"- doesn't say

Mr. REED. - Is that in his report, Mr. Brandeis ?

one inch,"

Mr. BRANDEIS. This is. Boston Fire Department, Headquarters, Dist. No. 1, February 7, 1894." It is the letter on page 552.

Mr. REED.— Well, he suggested later on in his testimony-qualified that by saying that he stated many things on information, not actual knowledge. I think he did.

The WITNESS. He did in his testimony here.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Well, was the rubber hose in the store cellar, where it would be useless if needed? Is that correct?

A. No, sir; it wasn't.

Q. Well, has that defect which he alleges there been remedied, or have you now still a lack of hose for the protection of the institution? A. Well, he doosn't say that we had a lack of hose there, does he? When he was there, if I remember correctly, he says we had quite a lot of hose there.

Q. The next sentence was, "There are no fire buckets in any of the buildings." Has that been remedied?

A.

That was absolutely without any foundation in fact, for we had nearly sixty in the institution building alone, and had had ever since I have been there.

Q. Then you think District Chief Egan doesn't know his business, either.

A. If he said that ?

Q. Didn't he say it?

A. I don't know. You are reading it.
You are reading it. I don't remember his re-

port. Q.

"There are no fire-buckets in any of the buildings."

A. Well, that isn't so and wasn't so.

Q. Well, District Chief Egan says in addition, "Nor are there a fire axe or rake." Has that been remedied?

A. Well, we have got now fire axes and not rakes, but, fire-hooks. The fire axes that we had there at the time he said were not proper for fire axes, because they didn't have a hook on them. We had the axes, but they were not according to his idea what they should be, so we got some

more.

Q. Well, now, is this statement correct: “Located in engine-room is a small Blake steam-pump, with connection for hose in case of fire, and a large 5-inch Knowles pump which sits on a large granite block, but is of no use; reason, not being connected." Is that correct?

4. The large pump was not connected when he was there and the small pump was just as he says.

Q. Yes. Well, is this statement correct: "There are two pony extinguishers in main building, but none in hospital buildings ?"

4. That was correct; yes, sir.

Q. And that has been remedied, hasn't it?

A. It has; yes, sir.

2. And that in regard to the pump not being connected has been remedied, too, hasn't it.

A. It has.

Q. Well, in that respect you are protected now where you weren't before?

Q. Then he says, in regard to the hospital building, "Neither are there any fire buckets. "

A.

There were not.

Q. There are now?

A.

Q.

4.

There are.

Well, that is an improvement that has been made, then?
Yes, but these were made before this investigation began.

Q. Well, where were they made ?

A. They were made almost immediately after his report, about the first of March, the latter part of February — the fire buckets.

Q. Well, this report of the Fire Commissioners was included in the visitors' report, wasn't it?

A. Yes.

Q. And it was made then in pursuance of the visitors' report, you would say, not in pursuance of this investigation?

A. Yes.

Q. That is, these were done in pursuance of the visitors' report. Is that it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, now, he says,

In main building there are about 150 feet of half-inch rubber hose to connect to faucets in wash-rooms, the same being minus play-pipes." Is that correct?

A. Yes, sir; that was correct.

Q. And has that been corrected? made?

Has that improvement been

A. Yes, that improvement has been made. the play-pipes at the time they sent the hose. believe, the next day after he was there.

They hadn't sent down
The play-pipes came, I

Q. "There is not an axe or rake on this island for fire service." Was that correct ?

A. According to his judgment; yes. What he considered a fire axe is an axe with a hook on the opposite end from the cutting end. We didn't have any of those, but we did have other axes that we have used for fire purposes.

Q. Well, have you supplied the fire axes that Dist. Egan recommended?

A. We have; yes.

2. Then he says "There are seven or eight hundred inmates, male and female, on this island, and out of that number the officers might pick out enough men to have a fire drill once or twice a week, and by that means perfect themselves in the use of fire appliances, which would place them in a position to direct, should a fire occur. Has that been

done?

A. We have not organized any fire brigade as yet; no, sir.
Q. Have not done anything in that respect?

4.

We have had fire drills of the officers, but not the inmates.
Q. Yes, and you have posted up some fire rules since that time?

A. My impression is that they were posted up before he was there. Don't you know they were posted up quite a little later than

Q.

that ?

Q. And when that printing was done at Deer Island what record was made of the fact? Is there any charge made at Long Island?

A.

There is.

2. I mean a charge for so much printing as if it had been done outside?

A. Yes. I wouldn't want to say as to the exact dates of those fire rules, because I don't remember.

Q. So that there has been an improvement since the Board of Visitors called attention to the lack of fire appliances? There has been that improvement in the fire appliances?

A. There has.

Q. That had been recommended, and there has been also an ample provision made for an ample supply of water?

A. That was being made. That was started a long time before the visitors were appointed.

Q. That was started several years ago, wasn't it?

A. No, sir; that was started a year ago this last spring. That is, they made a little start on it. The active work was begun on it, I think, the 22d of August last year.

Q. And the suggestion was made by the Commissioners quite a long time before that in their reports, wasn't it, a year before?

A. I don't remember, sir.

Q. Well, now, what other improvements have been made since the Board of Visitors' report or the commencement of this investigation? A. I don't remember now. Perhaps if you have them in mind and can suggests them I can tell you whether it was so.

Q. Any other improvements in the hospital?

A. Oh, yes; we are making improvements there all the time.

Q. Well, now, what?

A. Well, as I say, this chief nurse was an improvement.

Q. Well, don't repeat what we have been over; I mean additional to what you have testified to?

A.

Well. I think our records, our clinical records, are better than when we first started them a year and a half ago.

Q. When did you make this improvement in your clinical records?
A. Well, we have been improving a little from time to time.
Q. Well, you have started some new record books, haven't you?
A. No, sir.

Q. Merely in the manner of keeping them?

A. Merely in the manner of keeping them, that is all.

Q. Well, now, when did you make any marked improvement in the record?

A. Well, I think the greatest improvement was well, of course, the greatest improvement was made when we began keeping them. But since we began to keep them, which as in June, 1893, I think the greatest improvement was made this summer some time or this fall. I cannot give you the exact date. My impression is that it was anywhere from two to four months ago.

Q. Yes. Well, now, what other improvement, if any, has been made made ?

A. Well, we have got some boxes down there to keep the dirty clothes in, which we didn't have before.

That was one of her suggestions.

Q. Yes. Before that you didn't have any place at all for the dirty clothes?

4. Not any recepticle. We had a place for them. They were kept in the closets, but not in any receptacle.

Q. In the closets with what? What else was in the closets?

A. Well, in the bath-rooms. They weren't really closets.

Q. They were simply lying around in the bath-rooms?

4. No, they didn't lie around any length of time, because they were taken away from there and taken to the laundry.

Q. Yes. Now, what else did you do in the way of improvements? A. Since I have been there we have the diet cards and treatment cards.

Q. What are diet cards?

A.

Those are cards that are hung up at the foot of the bed on which is written the diet that the patient is to get. The treatment cards are the same. We also have dejection cards now. That we didn't use to

have.

Q. What else?

A. Then Mrs. Kinney introduced a system by which she could, as near as was possible, be absolutely sure that the patient got the medicine that was ordered to the mand that they got a baths when a bath was due.

Q. Yes. When was that done A. That was done since August. think.

Q. Yes; what else?

A.

sometime since August?

That was done since September, I

I think that since we got our chief nurse there is, perhaps, a little more regularity in the way that the ward is set up.

Q. What do you mean by that?

4. Well, instead of one patient having his towel at the head of his bed and another patient having his towel under his pillow, they are all hung on the head of the bed, and instead of one patients sitting with his rocking-chair, twisted one way and another another they are all set the same way and the tables the same way.

Q. That is, there is a certain order and discipline in the hospital? A. Well, I don't know as to the discipline and the order does not always remain, but there has been more of an attempt at it.

Q. Well, what else, and what other improvement has been made since the Board of Visitors' report of the commencement of the investigation ?

4.

Let me see — I don't know as I—

Q. Remember anything.

A. Remember anything.

Q. Has there been any change of any kind in regard to the discipline of the institution, the hospital or institution either?

A. Well, I think it is nearer what it was before they came down there now. I think I have got it back pretty much where it was last

year.

Q. Yes. That is, the institution is about as it was in December? A. Well, that is, as far as discipline is concerned.

Q. Has there been any change in the rules and regulations in respect to the institution?

Q. In what respect?

A.

There is a rule that forbids inmates going on certain portions of the island.

Q. Yes.

4. I thought I might as well get them into training for the time when the women came, so I have forbidden them from going on that portion of the island which will be reserved for the women. That was

done last spring.

Q. Yes- any other change in regard to the discipline or regulation. of the inmates of the institution?

A. Yes. I have introduced new bathing regulations.

Q. What are they?

4. I issue tickets for baths and the bath ticket is good for a piece of tobacco, and if a man don't take a bath he don't get any tobacco. I have their names all down, and if they come in and take their bath without being sent for we give them a piece of tobacco, and if we have to send for them they don't get any tobacco and still have to take the bath.

Q. Well, do they get as many pieces of tobacco as they have bath tickets?

4. No, they don't.

Q. Get only one a week, anyway?

A. One a week, anyway.

Q. What other changes in the rules and regulations have you made down there?

. Oh, I have taken down the rules that were in the infirmary, which used to be the hospital, and hung them up over in the hospital proper.

Q. Well, what change in regulations is there in regard to the work of the pauper inmates?

A. I don't remember of any.

Q. That is, the matter of paupers working or not working is just the same as it was a year ago?

A. In regard to what?

Q. In regard to compelling them to work?

A.

I can't compel them to work now any more than I could when I first went there.

Q. And you have never tried to compel them to work at any time, have you?

4. Always have.

Q. How have you undertaken to compel them?

A. Why, set them to work, and if they didn't work I discharged them.

Q. That is, discharged them from the island?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And then they came back again?

A. Yes, and I always tried to save the same thing for them when they came back and put them right into it.

Q. Yes, and then they made a series of visits to the city and returned. Is that it?

4. Yes, sir; that is about it.

Q. Now, you believe in work, do you?

A. I do; yes, sir.

Q. Well, in my — what you call the opening of counsel, there were several pages devoted to this subject of compulsory labor. Do you recall that

A. I don't just now.

Q. You spoke of it in your argument? You spoke of it as the last four pages of the opening of counsel ?

A. Yes, I read them over and I came to the conclusion that I couldn't do anything about it, it didn't have any reference to me, so I let it stand.

Q. Now, in the description here we say: Now, what is the condi