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Q. Those are the two days in October?

A. Those are the two days in October when we hail the greatest shortage that occurred at any one time.

Q. And the other time was in May?

A. Was in May, the otber time was, if I remember correctly. I didn't say that the continued shortage was in October - I said December.

Q. Did you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, then, in October there wasn't any continued shortage?
A. No, sir; it was only for two days.
Q. It was only in May and December?
A. May and December that there was any continued shortage.
Q. Now, what was the continued shortage in December?

A. It was probably the 8th, the 6th, or somewhere about the 6th of November to the 26th, if I remember correctly.

Q. How much was the shortage then ?
A. I think it was anywhere from five to twelve quarts.
Q. Out of how many ?
Ă. I think out of about eighty.
Q. Out of eighty ordered?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Five to twelve out of eighty ordered that was in December?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In December, five to twelve out of eighty ordered, and in May, you say, it was eight out of eighty, was it?

A. I say from four to eight. That is my remembrance of it. I shouldn't want to testify exactly. I only took it from the tickets? Q. Yes.

Where did you get these figures four to eight and five to twelve ?

A. Why, I got them by subtracting the amount delivered from the amount ordered, wbich would give me the shortage.

Q. Well, how many days in May did that shortage continue?
A. I think about six.
Q. What time in May?
A. The early part of May.
Q. Yes soon after you began.

Mr. Curtis. — The testimony is that he began the 20th of March.

Mr. BRANDEIS. - No, began these requisitions, I mean.
Q. Soon after you began these blue slips ?

A. Yes, sir. Then this shortage of milk didn't necessarily come out of the milk that was ordered for the patients as a diet, because the order in the liospital is anywhere from three to fifteen quarts estra for tea and coffee, and if we are short of milk it should have been taken out of that that went into the tea and coffee, not from the milk that was given to patients as diet. That is why I say that po patiept ever needed to suffer from the lack of milk.

Q. Yes, but the requisition for the hospital would cover the whole thing - I mean this blue slip would show the whole requisition that was made in the hospital for all purposes, wouldu't it?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Whether for diet or tea and coffee?
A. Yes, sir. It isn't distinguished there whether it is

Q. For diet or for tea or coffee. Well, now, doctor, you made an examination of this book and compared this book with the blue slips to see whether the amounts tallied in the two?

A. No, sir, I have not.

Q. Well, suppose you do that. You take the book. What was the amount delivered on

Mr. REED. What is the book he has, Mr. Brandeis?
Mr. BRANDEIS. He has one called, I think, the “ store book.”
Q. What is the amount delivered on May 8 ?
A. Eighty-six quarts.
Q. Eighty-six quarters, May 8?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, this blue slip which I have here dated May 8, which certifies that the whole amount is delivered, gives the order as eighty-eight quarts?

A. Well, there might have been a mistake in the measuring out of eighty-six and eighty-eight quarts.

Q. Yes, but your cook reports that the whole amount of eightyeight quarts was delivered and received, and only eighty-six was delivered according to your store book?

A. Well, I can conceive how that might have occurred very easily. She might have measured eighty-eight quarts. They might have sent over nearer ninety quarts. The milk is measured out in the storeroom into seven and a half and eight quart cans.

Q. Well, this certifies that she has received only eighty-three?

A. Well, just the same way she might have measured in the measure that she hari. I say it wasn't accurate, and she called it eighty-three quarts and the storekeeper called it eighty-six.

Q. Well, now, on May 10 what is the figure?
A. May 10, eighty-three quarts.
Q. Delivered ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, your storekeeper, your cook, Miss Campbell -- she was the cook, wasn't she?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. She certifies to having received only seventy-two. That seems to be a difference of eleven quarts?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. How so you account for that?

Å. As I have said, they measured out in this measure that they thought measured two quarts and which measured bearer two and one-half quarts, and she probably thought that she hadn't got · but the number of quarts that she certifies to. The storekeeper', according to the way he measured it, sent over eighty-three quarts.

Q. Now, can you account for the fact that two days before, when they had presumably the same measure, there was a difference of only three quarts in eiglity-six, and this tine there was a difference of eleven quarts, from using that measure, in eightythree?

A. I don't account for it wholly by the measure.

The man might have sent over eighty-three quarts of milk from the store and it wouldu't be astonishing that eight or ten quarts of it evaporated before it got over to the hospital through the carriers we bave down there. It doesn't necessarily follow

Q. Who are those carriers? 4. Iminates.

Q. That is the source to wbich you attribute the loss of eleven quarts of milk on the route; you attribute that to your carriers?

A. No, sir, I do not.
The stenographer repeated the following:

Q. Now, can you account for the fact that two days before, when they had presumably the same measure, there was a difference of only three quarts in eighty-six, and this time there was a difference of eleven quarts, from using that measure, in eighty-three?

A. I don't account for it wholly by the measure. The man might have sent over eiglity-three quarts of milk from the store, and it wouldn't be astonishing that eight or ten quarts of it evaporated before it got over to the hospital through the carriers we have down there.

Q. That is the way you account for it?
4. No, sir, I do not.
Q. How do you account for it!

Å. Because I don't know anything about the facts of the case at the time.

Mr. REED. Why not let him answer the question ?
Mr. BRANDEIS. Let him answer anything you wish.

Mr. REED. You interrupted him in his answer, and you interrupted the stenographer before he got through reading. If you don't want to have this done fairly, all right.

Mr. BRANDEIS. Doctor, will you go on if you have anything more to say ? Mr. Reed.

He said, “ It doesn't necessarily follow," and you interrupted him. If you will not let the stencgrapher read the question and answer, I shall state it as near as I can remember it.

The WITNESS. - I think I shall have to ask the stenographer myself to read the question.

(The stenographer again repeated the question and answer l'eferred to.)

A. What I mean to say is this: I don't know the facts of the case at that time. We don't know that she did use the same

It may happen that one ward would call for sixteen quarts of milk and it would come over in two eight-quart cans, and those two cans would be delivered to the wards.

Q. You mean it wouldn't go at all into the hospital kitchen?

A. Oli, yes, would go into the hospital kitchen, but would be delivered without any further measurements. Q. Well, wouldn't it be inserted in the receipt which your

cook gives you?

A. Iuserted in what way?

Q. Well, I mean it would be included in what she receipts for, wouldu't it?

21
4 Why, certainly.

measure.

Q. Yes, and when she gives a receipt tbat she has received oply seventy-two out of eighty-three quarts that would be true, wouldn't it?

A. It would be true according to her measurement; yes.

Q. Yes. Well, now, let us take May 12. What do you find on that?

A. Eighty-three quarts of milk.
Q. Eighty-three delivered ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. This requisition gives the amount delivered as sixty-seven I mean your cook receipts for only sixty-seven. How do you account for that.

A. I don't account for it.

Q. And she gives the amount ordered as eighty-seven and onehalf and the amount receipted for sixty-seven?

A. I don't account for it in any way at all.
Q. Well, take May 14 ?
1. Eighty-nine quarts of milk.

Q. Yes, and your cook gives the amount ordered as ninety quarts, and the amount delivered as seventy-nine and one-half ?

A. Well, the storekeeper says that he sent over eighty-nine quarts.

Q. Who was that storekeeper?
A. Mr. Smith.

Q. He was the one who was afterwards dismissed by the Commissioners, was he?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. For drunkenness?
4. No, sir.
Q. What for?

A. He wasn't convicted of drunkenness. In fact, I beard most of the testimony and there wasn't anybody that I heard said they ever saw him drunk.

Q. Well, why was he dismissed ?

Å. Because he took three drinks on the island with three different people at periods varying from three to six months apart.

Q. Well, that wouldn't be ground for dismissing a man, would it, with the Comniissioners? You did that, didn't you?

A. No, sir; I didn't.
Q. It would be surprising --

Mr. Curtis. I don't think he was dismissed. There is no evidence of it.

Mr. BRANDEIS. I am not asking about his dismissal - I am asking about the charge. It seems to be wholly inadequate reason for dismissing a man.

Q. What was the reason, Dr. Cogswell, that Smith was dismissed?

Mr. Reed. He didn't say he was dismissed. I think you used the term. The stenographer repeated :

Q. He was the one who was afterwards dismissed by the Commissioners, was be?

PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS.

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(A. Yes, sir."

Mr. BRANDEIS. I think if you will let the witness testify we will get along faster and get nearer the truth.

The WITNESS. Not a bit.

The CHAIRMAN. The witness has a right to say whether he understands Mr. Brandeis or not or whether he hears him.

Mr. REED. That is very true, but Brother Brandeis undertakes to mislead everybody, and I do not propose to submit to it. That is the fact be makes misleading statements.

Mr. LINCOLN. I ask that that be passed upon by the Chair.

Mr. REED. If you want to talk, speak up, Mr. Lincoln. You needn't be afraid.

Mr. LINCOLN. - I am not afraid of anything you may say, Mr. Reed.

The CHAIRMAN. -- Go on, Mr. Brandeis.
Mr. BRANDEIS.

Have I the assurance that Mr. Reed will not interrupt me?

Mr. PRUCTOR. You have a good deal of assurance, but you never will get that. The stenographer repeated :

Q. He was the one who was afterwards dismissed by the Commissioners, was he?

66 A. Yes, sir."

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) You say that Smith was not dismissed, do you? Why don't you answer, Dr. Cogswell? It is a matter that seems to be very clear.

Mr. Reed could answer it at once. Mr. REED. The only thing I said, Nr. Brandeis, was that you used the word, 6o dismissed."

Mr. BRANDEIS. Well, I have a right to use that word or any other, I suppose.

Mr. REED. — I do not question your right at all.

Mr. BRANDEIS. Now, will you agree not to interrupt me while I am questioning the witness?

Mr. Reed. — I shall not agree not to interrupt anybody. All. LEE. - The doctor assented to it in his answer, didu't be? (The stenographer again repeated the question.)

Q. (By Ald. LEE.) How was that, Dr. Cogswell? What is the answer to that? Does that answer stand?

A. I received a letter from the Commissioners saying that it had been found on investigation that he had taken a drink or drinks with certain parties on the island, and that — I don't remember the exact phraseology, but the idea was to let him go.

Q. Well, he was dismissed, discharged, let go?

4. Yes, sir; he was, according to the way I look at it, but he resigned, though, before I got the communication. So there you

are.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) You didn't accept his resignation, did

pou ?

A. We accepted his resignation ; yes.
Q. What?
d. Yes, sir; we accepted his resignation.

Q. How long had he been under investigation for drinking previous to this time?

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