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4. No, of course not, just as I told you.
Q. Talking about the sales to the boarding-house.
A. Just exactly as I stated.
2. There is no such thing there, is there?

A. When Mr. Galvin sent milk from Long to Rainford Island, Long and Rainsford islands were under the same financial management that is, their finances.

Q. We know about that. We are not talking about that.
A. Well, I am.
Mr. PROCTOR.

Let him answer.
The WITNESS. Therefore he wouldn't sell anything to himself.
Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Of course not.
A. Therefore, the item for milk does not appear.

Q. Well, that we knew, because you had answered that before. But you

said he had sold to these boarding-house people? A. And I do say so, as I said before, but it appears lumped as farin produce.

Q. How do you know it does?

4. Well, I know he sold it, because I have the bills down there to siiow and the receipts. Not the receints. You will find the account of it downstairs, I thivk, if you want to go down to the Collector's office. I can show rou op our books clown there where it was delivered to Mr. Richienbacher.

Q. Where is it lumped in? Is it itemized in the account?

A. No, sir —$293.30 for farm products, and there is not a cent else appears as having anything else to do with the farm. As ] say, an item for $522.64 would be enough to show.

Q. Yes.

4. As a separate item, but they wouldn't put an item for milk, four or five dollars, in, when they had $293. They lumped it all together.

2. That is your explanation, is it? A. That is my statement of facts.

Q: Well, I will read you some of the items here ou page 7 of the report of that year.

Oil Mr. CURTIS. - I will ask if you are reading Mr. John Galvin's report?

Mr. BRANĐEIS. The Commissioners' report, page 7.
Mr. CURTIS. What year?
Mr. BRANDEIS.

Febrnary 1, 1893 - 1892-93.
Q. This is the income for the Home for Paupers, Long and
Rainsford Islands. Oil, fifteen cents. This is what has been sold

oil, fifteen cents ?
A. Yes.
Q. Flour, $1.35 ; ice, 6.87; candles, 14.40.
Mr. CURTIS. Those are not farm products.

The WITNESS. Will you be kind enough to inform me which one of those you would class as a product of the farm down there at Long Island ?

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) I don't suppose your farm produces any of those, but I say this, that your answer shows that your statement that they wouldn't put down small items is not a correct statement, and that you are imagining now, drawing on your imagipation, to explain the fact that you were the first who undertook to sell milk when the patients were clamoring for it and the doctors were complaining that they badn't enough?

A. Now, Mr. Brandeis, I dido't say anything of the kind.

(By request of Mr. Brandeis the stenographer repeated the following :)

Q. Then you think all the testimony that has been given about patients complaining is untrue?

A. I haven't heard a great deal of testimony about patients complaining about milk from anybody who knew anything about it, except Morphy, and he testified that the shortage was in December.

Q. Did he?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Sure?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The only shortage?
A. The only continued shortage; yes, sir.

Q. (By BRANDEIS.) Now, I will ask you, doctor, to listen to this testimony of Mr. Morphy and tell me whether or not Morphy testified true. This is on page 574 of the records ;

Q. Well, now, have you had any difficulty in getting the food that was actually ordered for the hospital?

A. Oh, yes.
Q. You did? Well, what did you have particular difficulty in getting?

4. Well, milk was the principal thing. We never seemed to get enough of that.

Q. You never got enough of that? Has there been any change in that respect ? A.

Yes.
Q. When did that change come ?
A. About three months ago. Probably sometime in December, I think

I would not be sure.
Q. Well, how is it now? How has it been since that time?
4.

All right.
Q. It has been all right?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, now, will you give the committee some idea as to how much difficulty you had with the milk before that time?

A. Well, the main difficulty was that sometimes I didn't get more than one-third or probably one-fourth of what I had ordered what the doctors had ordered, and what I had ordered in my requisition.

Q. Not a third or fourth of what was ordered by the physician?

A. That didn't continue very long, but I know it did for two or there weeks, and I think it was in November.

Q. Well, was there any long period of time prior to January, prior to three months ago, when you did get all the milk that you wanted?

A. Well, all along last summer I had always a difficulty about milk.
2. You always liad difficulty about the milk?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And this goes on asking about the pint. Now, what do you say about that, doctor?

4. That is just what I said.

Q. You agree with bim, then, that there was always difficulty throughout the summer?

A. As I said, the women were served with milk first.

Q. Yes.

A. They would serve them when they began to serve and the men's ward if they ever came sbort it would be the men's ward.

Q. Yes.

A. Then they would have to wait until they sent over to the milk-room to get some more milk, and sometimes they had to wait until the milk came from the barı. But I say this, that eventually they got in nearly every case all the milk that they called for excepting in Deceniber there.

Q. He says in November.
4. And part in May.
Q. He says that all along last summer he had the difficulty ?
Ă. That is what I say.
Q. That is the time you were selling the milk?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then you were selling the milk at the time Morphy testified that they were having difficulty all along in getting milk?

A. I also testitied that at that time there was plenty of milk on the island and they got it in the hospital. I think I explained to you low it was they had the difficulty with the milk.

Q. What does this mean : • I didn't get more than one-third or probalılı one-fourth of what I had ordered what the doctors had ordererl od wlict I hard ordered in any requisition" ?

A. I think you will find that either in the cross-examination or the direct be testified that that was in November or December, and it was in December, and I admitted that we were short of milk thien, but I don't think it was to that extent.

Q. There wasn't any shortage in November, though?

A. I don't think there was any great continued shortage might have been one or two days a little short.

Q. What do you mean by little short” ?
A. A quart or so, a quart or two quarts no more thao that.

Q. Here is November 27 the amount of milk ordered on your requisition is one hundred, the amount of milk delivered is eighty?

A. What date is that?
Q. That is the 27th of November?

A. Yes, sir ; that is just what I explained to you, that at that time during the summer we had

Q. You haven't explained?

A. Excuse me they were ordering anywhere from five to ten or fifteen quarts extra for the tea and coffee, and about that time, if you will notice, I think you will find that they are cut down, and I stopped them from ordering so much milk for the tea and coffee and made it less.

Q. How much extra did they order?
A I couldn't tell you the exact amount.

Q. That is how you explain that discrepancy? You think that is what Morphy was referriog to when he spoke of that Long shortage in November when he didn't get more than a third or fourth of what was ordered ?

A. I think it was in December, and not November.

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Q. Did he in December get oply a third or fourth of what was ordered?

A. I don't believe he was quite so low as that even then. All that I know, Mr. Brandeis, about this, is the complaints that came to me and what the cook represents that she received and delivered.

Q. You have no personal kpowledge of it at all ?

A. I have the personal knowledge that I obtained at different times from time to time, perhaps three or four times a week that I would be in the dining-room at the time that they are delivering the milk. Outside of that I have no personal knowledge, because I was not present in each ward at each meal.

Q. And therefore you do not propose to deny the statements which Morphy made?

A. Escepting as I say, when he says that it was November or December, I think it was in December.

Q. What do you say when be says they were always having ditticulty?

A. Just as I say -- that they had to wait for their milk. I don't thiuk that they ever had to wait for their milk in the morning.

Q. Well, he says that they never seemed to get enough. That doesn't seem to show that they were delayed in getting it, but that they never seemed to get enough. Do you deny that statement?

A. I don't believe that Mr. Morphy said that under cross-examiration. I don't think he did.

Q. He was cross-examined, wasn't he?

4. I say I don't think he did. I don't think he made that statement. Mr. BRANDEIS. Let us see.

Have you anything on that, Mr. Reed, of cross-examination that would weaken it in any way?

Mr. PROCTOR. You don't want us to interrupt?

Mr. BRANDEIS. – I would like to have you give us that information, if there is anything.

Mr. REED. — All right, Mr. Brandeis :

Q. Have you had any trouble, Mr. Morphy, with the milk since the middle of December?

1. I don't remember any instance that I did.

Q. And when you were short of milk or anything you made out one of these separate slips and sent it for it? You know you have a separate slip from the regular requisition where you fill out the special orders?

4. No, sir; if I had a special diet order I ordered it on an ordinary piece of paper or anything that I could lay my hands on.

Mr. BRANDEIS. Well, that doesn't seem to throw much light on this inquiry.

Ald, LEE. Well, Mr. Chairman, I don't think we are getting any liglit at all

not to-night, surely. Mr. BRANDEIS. - I don't think we bave got much.

Ald. LEE. -No; it is pretty near time for the chairman to call a halt, if we are going to get through, and get on to sometbing else.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) That is all you have to say, Dr. Cogswell, on that subject?

1. Ou what?
Q. On Morphy's testimony?

A. Just this, that if Mr. Morphy was very short of milk so that they needed any, I didn't know it until along late in the fall.

Q. Yes.

A. And at that time I know that he must have been short from the fact that the cook's requisitions show that they were short, and I know that whatever trouble he had apparently with the milk was always — nearly always — 99 times out of 100, on the men's side. We

very seldom had any trouble on the women's side with the milk. There is one thing — since I ordered Mr. Morphy or some other nurse to accompany the man who brought the milk down from the kitchen, and ordered the couk not to deliver any milk to anybody but the nurse in person, we haven't had this trouble with the milk even in the men's ward.

Q. Well, you have kept a record, haven't you, since the visitors were down there and made their complaints about it started a regular record ?

A. No, sir; I started that before the visitors made their report, and I started the same system before the visitors ever came to the island.

Q. You did ?
1. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, what is the date of this?
A. That is February 1, 1894.
Q. February 1st this begins ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did the visitors go down there?
A. The first of January,

Q. When did they tirst talk with you in regard to complaints about the milk?

A. I think the first day.
Q. About the first day of January?

A. I think so, if I remember correctly. If it wasn't the first, it was the second.

Q. And it was in consequence of their complaints that you started this book, wasn't it?

A. No, sir; not at all. The system was started before.
Q. What system?
d. Of keeping it that way.
Q. You hadn't had any book before?
A. No, sir; I didn't - stirled it on some paper.
Q. Used some of these slips?
A. No, sir; not slips ~ commou, ordinary sheets of paper.
Q. When did you begin that?
A. I began those the first day of January.
Q. That was the day they were down there?

d. Yes, sir; and I began another somewhat the gaine on the 27th day of December, before I knew tbat they were coming to the island.

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