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Q. Then you don't know wbat is done with the body any more than you put it aboard the steamer. You don't know who takes it?

A. Under ordinary circumstances we do not.
Mr. Curtis. Can tell at the Commissioners' office.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I don't suppose Dr. Cogswell can testify to that.

Q. There is one more question, doctor, I will ask you, and that is, when you put this body aboard the steamer do you get any receipt for that body from the captain or the mate of the steamer?

A. No, sir, we do not.

Q. Then, if the question should happen to come up betwixt you and the captain of the steamer, you would have nothing to show that you had put that hody aboard the steamer?

A. The only thing we have is our freight book, as I say, which shows that the body was sent to the city. Mr. PROCTOR.

Well, they would either have the body, Mr. Chairman, or it would be gone. If they had the body that would be sufficient evidence that they hadlu't delivered it. If they didn't have the body it must bave been delivered.

The CHAIRMAN, That is not the point I am getting at.

The WITNESS. The chairman is getting at pretty much wbat I wanted to say in regard to those books, excepting that they were an attempt op my part to start what I considered a satisfactory system, and were the result of experience gained after some months' trial. Now, in regard to this pass-book I want to say this : we started this in ratber a primitive way to see what they needed, and in keeping it up from June 19 to November 23, we found that in a good many instances after the body was buried the friends would call for it and we would have to take it up and deliver the body, and that would leave an empty grave. So, opposite November 6, in grave 11, we buried some one, I don't know wbo, and the body was taken up, and then November 6 we buried Marcella Byrne. Now, we had to scratch out the first name in order to get tlie second name in. After doing that two or three times, Mir. Hinds thought his work didn't look very neat and he started to copy it over again, and he copied over from June 16 to February

Then it was suggested by Mr. Pilsbury, I believe, somewhere about that time, that it would be a good idea to have two lines where we could insert a second oame on the second line and thus keep track of the bodies that were in the grave, because it would be convenient, we thought, at some time, it might be, to know who had been in a certain grave; and he started off again and continued, and that has been continued with the book we have there. He just copies this separately from the other, not quite so much in it, but still containing the real essence, which is the name of the person and the number of the grave. In case that anything happened to one book we would have the second. Now, it has been suggested here that the date of the burial of Frederick Rallion has heen tampered with, presumably with the intention of having it thought that I had changed the date for the purpose of throwing the blame of the mistake of the burial on Mr. McCaffrey

1.

Now, If a per

when it belonged on myself. It certainly does have the appearance of being tampered with bere, but whether it has been or not, whether it was done with the intention to deceive, we will lay that to one side. It appears here that Frederick Ralliop was buried October 13. There isn't any question but what the " October” and the figure “3” are the same as they were originally placed. The only question comes on the “ 1.” Now, according to that, Frederick Rallion would have been buried either October 3, October 13, or October 23. He certainly couldn't have been buried on the 3d, hecause he didn't die until the 8th, and that is a matter of record that is in a good many books and doesn't show any tampering. Now, if be was buried on October 13, and that is what I claim, my contention is substantiated that I was not responsible for the burial not being there. Now, the only date that remains is October 23. The next number of the grave is twenty-five, after Rallion. There was a woman there I think her pame was Hoporah Brennan. It has been scratched out because there was another body put in ber place after we removed her. She was buried on the same day that Rallion was.

William E. Howells was buried October 20. it is our custom down there to bury in regular rotation. son died on the 8th and another on the 10th, one would be buried before the other or on the same day. Now, if you will look in the death book you will see that William E. Howells died October 15. He was buried on the 20th. Now, Fred Rallion having died on the 8th, he certainly, if he hadn't been buried before, would have been buried with Mr. Howells on the 20th, and he would not have been buried on the 23d. Therefore I say, that even allowing that somebody did tamper with this apparently, which I don't think was done, it would seem as though Frederick Rallion was buried on the 13th. Now, here is another thing. November 23 none of us ever suspected that there was going to be an investigation, and no one ever thought that this question of Frederick Rallion's being sent up to the city by mistake would occupy the position before the public that it has, and we had no reason for changing any dates, any of us.

November 23 Mr. Hinds started his second attempt at improving the looks of the book, and you tind that he has got down Frederick Rallion buried October 3.

Q. (By Mr. REED.) Show it to the committee.
(The witness showed the book to the committee.)

A. Then there was considerable said because in one book there the

age of Edward Cuddy was given as eighty and in the olber book it was given as seventy. Mr. Brandeis said that I did not explaiu that so that he could understand it. I will see if I cannot explain it so that the committee can understand it. This book in which you find bis age as seventy is a book that we got up for the purpose of having our records as accurate as we possibly could, aud we took bis age, as I said here before, from his permit when he came into the institution. We thought that that was nearer his age than eighty. The age eighty appears in the first book, because that was taken from the pedigree book which gave his age as he gave it when he went into the hospital, and we thought that the

age that he gave at 14 Beacon street was nearer his true age

It was

than the age which he gave when he came into the hospital. That is why we made that change. There are a good many other changes we have made from one book to the other and for the sake of being more accurate. Then I want to explain what I said in regard to the small item in the farm products. I said, or intended to say, to convey the impression, that in making up the receipts from the farm products that the item of $550 for milk, which was, perhaps, half of what we received, was of enough consequence in their judgment to appear by itself, whereas an item of four or five dollars for milk would not appear by itself, was too small to be of any consequence, and so was lumped in with the others to make up the 290 odd dollars. Then I should like to testify as to the date of Dr. Fitz's visit to our institution.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) Hasn't be testified in relation to that?

A. No, sir; he didn't remember. He said he didn't make any memoranda, and it was his impression that he was there early in the summer, whereas he visited the island April 4, 1894, some little over two weeks after this investigation was started.

Q. By Mr. REED.) And his second visit?

d. And his second visit - I don't know the date of that, any more than that it was about six weeks ago.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN ) Is that all, doctor?
A. That is all I think of.

Q. There is one question I might ask you in relation to this hook here, if you will come and look. On this old record of burials we will call it the old record of burials — what does that 66 41 " mean?

A. Well, that simply signifies there it is one, two, three, four that was tbe forty-first death on the men's side.

Q. Since when?
A. Since the first of February, 1893.

Q. That is the forty-first death. Frederick Rallion is put down here as seventy-seven years old and as dying October 8?

4. Yes, sir.

Q. The next one is forty-two, Thomas Hogan, seventy-two years of age, died October 5; the next one is forty-three, Andrew Glass, 36 years old, October 6; and the next, forty-four, is John Hennessey, seventy-two years old, October 4. Now, I cannot see why John Hennessey's name should not be put before these other names here. It seems be died before these other people did.

A. I don't pretend to explain this record of deaths as it stands on this book.

Q. Well, this was kept since you were superintendent?

A. Yes, sir; but I didn't kpow they kept it is that book. I supposed that the record of deaths was kept in the hospital register and on the institution register. I didn't know there was a separate book for the record of deaths on the island until Dr. Parker brought it to me, as I say, in connection with making out the apnual report.

Q. (By Ald. LEE.) Well, wbo kept that book?
A. From the looks of it I should say it was kept by Mr. Coak-

ley,

Charles H. Coakley an inmate. He used to do a great deal of clerical work in the hospital. His work, however, is done under the supervision of the doctors and the nurses.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) Do your hospital records show the death of a person?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. Any more than these books here which you have brought?

A. Well, all of these -- that is, the most of these facts are taken from our bospital register or pedigree book.

Q. Well, you have a book there in which are entered the names of the patients in the hospital, and when they die I suppose you enter it on the book ?

A. When they die the doctor or nurse does; yes, sir — for instance, if this was the bospital register

Q. You haven't that book here?

A. No, sir, I haven't. There is the name, and it is pretty much the same as this, except it gives when be enters and when be is discharged.

Q. Well, is there any book you keep down there from wbich we could ascertain what transpired from day to day.

1. Well, in regard to the patients ?
Q. Yes.
A. You mean the patients in the hospital?
Q. Yes.

A. Yes, that is the one that I say contains the private history of each patient down there, and what is given them from day to day and the condition from day to day, whether improving, or if anything happens to them, new developments, that is put in.

Q. (By Mr. REED.) One question, doctor. You have spoken of the time Dr. Fitz inade his visits there. It has been insinuated that you may bave made some special preparation for the reception of Dr. Fitz and other physicians, who have gone there to look your hospital and institution over. I want to ask you what special preparation, if any, you made?

A. In espectation that the insinuation might be made, I was very careful not to make any.

Q. And the fact is that you did not?

A. I did not make any at all. I didn't make any preparations for his visit.

Q. (By Ald. LEE.) Did you give liim a banquet?
A. No.

Q. (By Mr. RILEY.) Didn't know he was coming down there, I suppose ?

A. Yes, I did.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Doctor, you have not explained the case of that man who was buried six days before he died ?

A. Which one is that?
Q. The one you testified about at the last hearing?

A. If you could give me bis name I think I should be very much pleased to explain it if I can.

If you

Q. William O'Brien wasn't that his name? I guess it was in that grocer's pass book?

A. (Examining book.) All I can say as to that is, that it was a mistake of the clerk in putting down ditto marks. notice, where he has copied it into the new burial book he has got it that he was buried on the same day that he died.

He died on December 3 and was buried on December 3, and when he put it in there as being buried on November 23, it was a mistake. He didn't put down any dates he simply put down ditto marks. It was a clerical error liable to occur at any time.

Q. (By Ald. LEE). Well, the hospital record will show just what date he did die ?

A. Yes, sir; there is no mistake as to his death there.

Mr. BRANDEIS. The mistake was that he died after he was buried and not before.

(The hearing was adjourned at 7.30 o'clock P.M. to Thursday, December 13 at 4 o'clock P.M.

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