Page images

A. It was.
Ald. LEE.

- That settles it, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. RILEY. The trouble is that you have been up pretty early and late dancing with another man that I could name.

The CHAIRMAN, Mr. Riley, will you go on?

Ald. LEE. — Well, I will say this for him, that he is the one man who can trip the "light fantastic" and do the "terpsichorean act" better than anybody that I know in Boston.

Mr. RILEY. - But he tripped up Tuesday.

Ald. LEE. Well, Mr. Chairman, many a good man has been tripped up; and I have no doubt that before my friend Riley dies he may be tripped up a couple of times.

Mr. RILEY. —I will never do it dancing.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Riley.

Q. (By Mr. RILEY. Now, did you say to the Alderman just now that all you heard about it was that a lady was seen coming out of Mr. McCaffrey's room? Is that what you said?

Mr. PROCTOR. I think a reference to the stenographer's notes would show exactly what he did say.

Mr. RILEY. Oh, I don't care much about the reference. I must get at things in my own way.

Q. How do you put it now in regard to what you heard?

That a nurse was seen coming out of an officer's room.
Was that what you testified to the other night?



[blocks in formation]

A. Yes, sir.

A. Yes, sir.

2. You have no doubt about it?

4. No, sir.

Q. Well, will you listen now to the reading of the printed report? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were asked if your opinion of Mr. McCaffrey was good, and you said it was up to a certain time. You were then asked what changed your opinion, and you spoke about the sending of some choice vegetables to somebody and their not reaching their destination. You remember that, don't you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were then asked if there was anything else, and you said yes. Now, here is the question: "Q. Anything else?" And here is "Yes. I heard that he used to have one of the nurses in your answer: his own room until 12 or 1 o'clock in the morning." That is That is your whole answer. Is it right?

A. No, sir; it is not.

Q. Do you now swear that it is not set down here as you gave it?

A. If I said that, that wasn't

2. Do you swear that you didn't say it?

A. No, sir; I will not swear that I didn't say it.

Q. Do you admit that you did?

4. No, sir; I don't.

Q. Do you deny that you said it?

A. No, sir; I don't.

Q. Do you desire to alter this statement here ?

A. I wish to say

2. Do you now desire to alter this statement?

A. I don't know what it is.

Q. Why I just read it to you. (Reading:)

"Yes. I heard that he

used to have one of the nurses in his room until 12 or 1 o'clock in the morning."

A. If I said that, it is not what I heard.

Q. Don't you know whether you said it or not?

A. No, sir; I don't.

Q. Well, niost of us who stood by say that you did say it, and the stenographer and the printed report says so.

is not true Isn't that so?

A. No, sir.

Then, the fact is, that it


Is this answer that I read true.

[ocr errors]

No, sir; it is not true.

Q. Then, it is false. isn't it?

Then, it is false, isn't it?



[merged small][merged small][ocr errors][merged small][merged small]

Not necessarily.

Why, a thing that is not true must necessarily be false, must it

It may convey a wrong impression. It was not the impression that I wished to convey in any way, shape, or manner.

Q. In this answer of yours there is not an English word of more than two syllables. A ten-year-old child could understand it. You admit it is not true now, do you not?

4. Well, let me see that, Mr. Riley.

Q. Certainly; with pleasure. (Showing copy of hearing to witness.) (After reading answer.) Well, that is not so.


Q. Then this answer of yours is wrong?

A. Yes, sir; it is not the impression that I intended to convey.

Mr. RILEY. - IIe says this answer is wrong.

Ald. LEE.- Well, let us get it correct.
correct. I am glad to hear it.

Mr. RILEY. — Your last week's dissipation has demoralized more than


The CHAIRMAN. - Proceed, Mr. RILEY.

Q. (By Mr. RILEY.) Now, the person who gave you the information was a person who came from Deer Island?

A. No, sir.

Q. Well, now, as you refuse to mention names, I will begin. Wasn't it a Mrs. Whitney?

A. It was.


Was Mrs. Whitney on Deer Island when you were there ? 4. She was.

[blocks in formation]

She was arrested and sent there, I suppose, for some purpose or

Q. She was a convict?


She was on Deer Island as a prisoner.

Q. And she had been there several times, hadn't she?

[merged small][ocr errors][merged small][merged small]

Q. And when you left Deer Island to go to Long Island, did she go there, too?

1. When I went to Long Island

Q. Did she go from Deer Island to Long Island?

4. No, sir; and she had not been on Deer Island for nearly three years.

Q. When did you go to Long Island?

[blocks in formation]

Q. I am trying to prevent you from galloping in your testimony. When did she go to Galloup's Island?

1. I don't know.

Q. Was it in 1893 ?

Oh, no; she had been there about two years.

Q. Did she get to Long Island after you got there?
A. She did; yes, sir.


In what capacity?

A. As cook.

Q. Whose cook ?


The institution's.

[blocks in formation]




And at that time you had known all about her record ?
I had.

You had a fair idea of her vices and her virtues?

4. I had; and I thought her virtues were better than her vices.

Q. Well, I didn't ask you what you thought, because some people think too much and some too little. With a full knowledge of her record, you were willing to have her as an employee under you? A. I was. I had had her for nearly three years.

Q. Now, my mind does not work quickly, and I cannot grasp large problems. I want to take the thing simply. You were willing to believe the statement she brought to you in respect to the other employees of the city, were you?

A. I was.

Q. And you had her as a sort of a watch or spy on McCaffrey ?

A. I didn't.

Q. Well, you knew that she was acting as such in a way?

A. I didn't.

Q. Well, you knew that she brought you stories in regard to McCaffrey ?


She didn't until after he left.

Q. I didn't ask you whether it was before or afterwards. I simply asked you for facts.

A. I am giving you facts.

Q. You see, doctor, you are too adroit for me. stories about McCaffrey, didn't she?

A. A story.

She brought you

Q. And that story involved the good name of a woman, didn't it? A. Not necessarily.

Q. Didn't you think that it might cast reflections upon the good name of a decent woman, or at least add nothing to her reputation, to say that she had been in the room of a man who was not her husband as late as 12 o'clock or as early as 1 o'clock — an hour after midnight? A. I think Mr. McCaffrey has testified here that they used to come to him and wake him up when they had trouble in those wards. Q. I am not asking you that. Didn't you think that might be a reflection upon the lady's good name? Now didn't you?

A. It might, certainly.


Q. Now, then, you see it was a two-edged sword. If it reflected upon her good name, it must also have reflected upon the man. understand me, don't you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And so you thought it was a reflection upon both?

A. It might and might not be.

Q. Now, if you didn't believe that then, you intentionally did the lady a grievous wrong the other night by mentioning her name?

A. I didn't intentionally do her a wrong.

Ald. LEE. The Chairman made him answer that question.

Mr. RILEY. — Oh, no, you couldn't make me do a thing that I thought

was wrong.

Mr. BRANDEIS. It is as much a wrong on the man as the woman. He was a married man.

Q. (By Mr. RILEY.) The Chairman didn't bring out this answer:

"Yes. I heard that he used to have one of the nurses in his room until twelve or one o'clock in the morning." That flowed from your lips voluntarily, don't you remember?

A. Yes, I do.

2. The Chairman didn't bring that out?

4. No, he didn't.


2. Now, then, the only nurse you had in mind at the time you uttered that was the lady whose name you gave subsequently?

A. Now, Mr. Chairman, I have got done answering questions on this matter, and that is all there is to it.

Mr. RILEY. — I should think you might. That is, you have got to a position where you want to keep quiet.

The WITNESS. - I have got to a position where I think I will keep quiet, Mr. Riley; yes, sir.

Q. Mr. RILEY. Well, I don't blame you. If you wish to leave it there, of course I cannot help it.

[ocr errors]

Q. (By Ald. LEE.) Now, just a minute. It says here: Yes. I heard that he used to have one of the nurses in his room until 12 or 1 o'clock in the morning." You say that is not correct?

A. That was not the way that I intended to put it.

Q. How do you want that put?

A. That it was reported to me that one of the nurses was seen to come out of his room between 12 and 1 o'clock in the morning.

Mr. RILEY. And he afterwards gave the name of the lady.

[ocr errors]

Ald. Lee. Mr. Brandeis demanded it, and the Chairman said that he ruled that the question should be answered. I didn't suppose that he would answer it. If I had, you would have heard my gentle voice. Mr. RILEY. That was long after he had given this answer.

Ald. LEE. — I know; but it takes a pretty level-headed fellow to stand up and allow both you lawyers to ask all the questions you can

think of.

Mr. RILEY. - I wasn't asking him any questions when he said that. Ald. LEE. - Well, Brandeis was; and he lays it over you ten points. Mr. RILEY. But he was only trying to bring out the truth.

Ald LEE. — Well, as I say, if I had known he was going to answer it, you would have heard my gentle voice.

Mr. BRANDEIS. Wouldn't you have objected to his slandering Mr. McCaffrey, as well as any one else?

Ald. LEE.- Who?

Mr. BRANDEIS. This witness.

Ald. LEE.

than a woman.

Well, you know a man can stand it a great deal better

Mr. LINCOLN. Well, he is a married man, and has got a wife. I wish you would ask the witness why he said that. I would like to ask you

Ald. LEE. — Now, don't try to get me to testify anything about MeCaffrey, because I won't do it.

Mr. LINCOLN. No; but I want to ask him a question, why he didn't

The CHAIRMAN. This is wholly irregular. Will Mr. Riley please proceed?

Q. (By Mr. RILEY.) Before being on Long Island, you had been on Deer Island many years and in the employ of the city?

A. I had.


And were you at Deer Island during the cholera scare of 1892 ? A. I was.


You were then the Health Officer, were you?

A. I was.


And do you remember being on board the " Vigilant" for the purpose of inspecting the baggage of immigrants as they arrived?

[blocks in formation]

We never inspected the baggage.

Q. Who looked after the passengers on the European vessels as they reach our port here ?

A. I did, or my assistant.

Q. In what way?


We used to inspect the passengers; and perhaps what you have reference to in regard to the baggage is that we inspected the passenger list to see where they came from, and at that time if they came from any suspicious port we took their baggage and disinfected it. Q. Where did you take the baggage to?

A. Galloup's Island.

Q. What?

A. Galloup's Island,

Q. Well, you took it from the vessel?

A. Certainly; yes, sir.

A. On the "Vigilant."


And where did you put it before getting to the island?


That is what I asked you.

A. No, sir.

Q. Well, that is what I was trying to ask you anyhow. You had to help you remove this baggage some prisoners, did you not?

[blocks in formation]

Q. Well, if you don't know, who does?


4. I persume likely enough that we might have.

Q. That is, you took from the island some prisoners, put them on board of the " Vigilant" and had them take the baggage from the vessel on board the "Vigilant," and then to the island. Am I right? A. I think undoubtedly we did. It would have been perfectly safe to have had them do it.

Q. To have what?


To have them handle the baggage.

Q. Why did you anticipate me?

4. I thought you might possibly leave it out.

Q. No; but you make me think of the saying that the guilty flee when no man pursueth.

[blocks in formation]

Q. Then the prisoners did handle the baggage of the immigrants, didn't they?

A. I know that they did at certain times. I don't know whether they did on the “ Vigilant" or not.

Q. That was during the cholera scare ?

A. Yes, sir.

2. And then these prisoners were sent back to the prison, I pre


4. I presume so.

Q. And they were allowed to mingle freely with the other prisoners, were they not?

[blocks in formation]

Q. Well, wouldn't that be one way of spreading the cholera?

A. No, sir.

Q. Why not?

A. Because they didn't handle any of the clothing.

Q. Was any of the clothing infected?

[blocks in formation]

The employees on the island and myself.

Q. Well, inasmuch as you had the prisoners to handle the baggage,

do you mean to say that you didn't get them to handle the 'clothing?

« PreviousContinue »