Q. Will you tell the committee why you sent Mary McCarthy's body in a barrel ? Q. Sent up three coffins that day, did you? Q. You remember of speaking of the sudden return of the dead body, don't you? You remember testifying to that the other night? A. No, sir; I didn't testify to it. Q. Didn't you say that her body was sent back ? A. No, sir. Q. What did you say y? A. I said I remembered there was some trouble about Mary McCarthy. Q. Yes. A. But what it was I didn't remember. I think Dr. Parker might have volunteered to you some information which, as usual, was incorrect. Q. Who might? A. Dr. Parker. I saw him talking with you over there. Q. I know, but you see you think a little too much at times. Didn't you say the other night that Mary McCarthy's body was brought back? A. I don't think that I did. Q. Didn't you say that her friends got information of her death; that they sent to the island for it, and then you telephoned to have the body sent back ? A. I don't think that I did; no, sir. Q. Will you swear you didn't? A. I wouldn't swear I didn't; no, sir. Q. Then I am right in my statement - isn't that so? that such A. If I testified absolutely - which I don't think I did was the case, I looked the matter up since and it wasn't so. At the time I didn't think it was so, and if my memory serves me correctly I did not testify absolutely as to the occurrence, because I wasn't sure whether it was this McCarthy or another McCarthy; but I know that there was something about this McCarthy in some way we had some trouble over her body also. Q. You say that the three bodies were sent up to General Donohoe, don't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And do you say that in your judgment he received the three bodies? A. Yes, sir. Q. If General Donohoe should say he received but two what should you then say? A. I should still say that I sent the three bodies up on the Bradlee on a notification from him that he would send for them. Q. Yes. And do you remember having conversation with Dr. Parker soon after the bodies were sent up in which you said this in substance: Doctor, a great mistake has been made. the body of Mary McCarthy was sent up to town, put in a barrel, meant for the Emergency Hospital, and now the relatives of Mary McCarthy have applied for the body, and now how can I get it back "? Do you remember that conversation? A. No, sir, I don't. Q. Do you say you didn't talk to Dr. Parker about that body? A. Yes, sir oh, no, no; I wouldn't say I hadn't talked with him about the body. Q. What did you say about the body? A. I don't remember what I said. I am very positive of one thing, though, that I never said to him or anybody else that the body was placed in a barrel, because I never heard of it in connection with barrel up to now, and it wasn't this body at all. a Q. You remember talking with Dr. Parker about the body of the woman? Q. Did you talk to Dr. Parker about a body that you sent up to Boston ? A. A body? Yes, sir; I presume so. Q. Was it the body of a woman? A. Yes, sir, it was. Q. Was it a body forwarded to General Donohoe? A. No, sir, it wasn't. Q. Whom was it forwarded to ? A. To Dr. Galvin, of the Emergency Hospital. Q. On whose order? Q. That is, you received an order from General Donohoe to forward a body to Dr. Galvin? I don't remember exactly. Q. Well, how soon was it after the Cuddy body was sent up? A. Some little time. Q. How long do you think? A. Oh, I couldn' tell exactly how long, but it was some little time. Q. Well, now, you have both orders, haven't you? A. No, sir, I haven't. Q. Well, you have already sworn that you have the first order, the order calling for the three bodies? A. Yes, sir. A. The second order is in another form, which is a notice to deliver the body. Q. What do you mean by another form? A. We have two forms. The first order for the three bodies was a personal letter. The next order for Catherine McCarthy, which you have got mixed up, and so did Dr. Parker Q. I am afraid you have got mixed up. A. Oh, no, not much, this time, because I have looked it up since, and that is why I wouldn't testify to it positively the other night, because you see when I don't know a thing I don't intend to get up here and say I do. Q. Describe the second order. A. It is a notification to send up a body on either the morning or the afternoon boat, and that the friends will be at the wharf to receive it. Q. Oh, that wasn't sent up for anatomical purposes, was it? A. From my knowledge of the case I should say it was. Q. Well, what did you mean by saying “the friends of the deceased would be at the wharf to receive it "? As far as I know; yes. Q. Well, what was there in the latter order to indicate to you that it was meant for anatomical purposes? A. A. Nothing. Then why do you say it was meant for anatomical purposes? Q. Tell the committee how you knew that? A. Q. Because a doctor came down from the Emergency Hospital. A. In the morning. Q. Did you receive the letter? نے نی A. It wasn't a letter, it was a notice - a printed notice. I distinguish between the letter and a printed notice. Q. Did you receive a printed notice ? A. I think he brought it down with him. Q. Who was the doctor? A. Dr. Segar. Q. He was then? A. He was then assistant of Dr. Galvin at the Emergency Hospital. He brought down a trunk to take the body up with him and I wouldn't let him. I didn't think it was decent, and told him he had got to take it in a coffin. That is how I know that body went up in a coffin. Q. At that time you had been a member of the medical profession for many years? A. Yes, sir. Q. You knew of the provisions of law relating to the appropriation of bodies for that purpose? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you think you were complying with those provisions when you delivered that body? A. I certainly was. Q. Did you think the law was being complied with? A. Yes, sir, it was. Q. Did you think the Board of Health had granted a permit? A. Yes, sir, it had. Q. Did you think a bond had been filed? A. Yes, sir, I did. Q. Do you say now that a permit had been granted ? A. Yes, sir. Q. You know that, do you? A. Yes, sir; I have got the permit. Q. You told me you didn't get the permits; that they were kept at the Commissioners' office ? A. Not for this one, because they returned the body. It would have been if they had taken the body. This is the one, you know, where we found out she had some friends afterwards, and we didn't know but they might claim her, so I sent and got the body back. Q. I don't wonder you saved your neck in time. な A. Still, we did everything according to law, and we would have been perfectly justified in letting them have the body. Q. You said awhile ago that whenever a body was sent up for that purpose you had an order from the secretary of the Commission, didn't you? Q. In this case you didn't have such an order, did you? A. I did. Q. Why did you undertake to distinguish between what you called the written order and what you called the printed notice? Why did you do that? A. Because I wanted to be accurate. They are both orders, except that one is written and the other is printed. Q. That suits me. Now, that being so, why didn't you keep the second order on your files? A. I did. Q. I asked you if you had the second order as well as the first, and you said no. A. You asked me if I had the second letter. Q. You distinguish between the letter and the order? A. Certainly. Q. And I must speak by the card, else equivocation will undo me? Yes, if you want to get at the facts. A. Q. You have both, have you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you can produce both? A. Yes, sir; I can; that is, I could four or five days ago. I won't guarantee to produce anything here nowadays. Q. You will have that the next time you come up here ? A. Yes, sir, I think I will. Q. And your position now is that the Board of Health granted permits for the three bodies that were sent up and also for the body that was afterwards sent up or delivered to Dr. Galvin's assistant? I don't know anything about the permits for the three bodies that A. were sent at once. Q. Well, why did you deliver the body to Dr. Segar? Why did you deliver it? what is his name, A. I didn't deliver it to him. I sent it up on the boat. Q. Why did you send it up? A. Because I got this notice. Q. But you said, you know, some time ago, that the bodies were kept five days, and it doesn't appear that you had kept that body for five days. Ă. Catherine McCarthy's? I don't know, sir. Q. It appears the other three bodies were kept only four days when they were sent up? A. One of them. The others, I think, we kept longer. Q. That proves one of two things either that your testimony in that respect is not true, or that you were mistaken. A. You didn't allow me to explain. By and by when we get through I will explain that it was a mistake. Q. But you did say bodies were always kept five days? A. I said that was our custom, was rule. Q. But you departed from the custom in the case named, didn't you? A. In one instance; yes, sir. Q. Why did you do that? A. Are you ready for the explanation now? Q. Oh, isn't it a very simple thing to answer? Why did you do it? Don't go into a long statement. Mr. PROCTOR Make as long an explanaton as you think best. Mr. RILEY - Oh, no. The WITNESS. — There is no danger of that. As I said, I misunderstood General Donohoe's letter. I undersood him to say or to mean that he would send to the boat for the bodies. Instead of that he meant that he would send down a notice next day for the bodies to be sent up; that is all. Q. You don't catch the point of my question, or if you do you don't seem desirous of answering it. You have said that the custom was to keep the bodies five days before sending them? A. Yes, sir, before sending the notice. Q. What notice? A. The notice to the Commissioners that a body could be taken for anatomical purposes. Q. Yes, sir; and the notice, of course, always comes before the delivery of the body, doesn't it? The notice is always given before the delivery of the body? A. A notice, or an order of some kind. Q. And before you send the notice you keep the body for five days, don't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, it appears in the case I am talking about that you sent the body up in four days. How do you account for it? A. Well, I thought I explained it. Q. Well, I don't think you did. A. This person supposedly didn't have any friends. It was the body of Edward Cuddy that we sent up on the fourth day; the others were all right but Edward Cuddy. We always send a notification to the Commissioners, on the death of a man, whether he has got any friends or if he hasn't. Q. Yes. A. If he has got any friends we say who they are and where we have notified them. If he hasn't got any friends we say so. General Donohoe gets these letters, and he saw that Edward Cuddy didn't have any friends, as we notified him. He sent me this letter, that he would send for the bodies next day. Meaning, as I afterwards found out from him, that he would send the notice, a printed notice, for them to be delivered. I understood him to mean that he would send for the bodies to the boat, and therefore I sent up the bodies. Q. Is that your explanation? Q. Now, why don't you answer the question? from your custom of keeping bodies five days? from it in that case? Why did you depart Why did you depart A. I didn't say anything about keeping bodies. I said that we didn't send a notice of the fact that a body could be used for anatomical purposes until the expiration of five days. it ? Q. That is because you want to keep the bodies for five days, isn't A. Because General Donohoe sent for it. Q. Then if they sent for a body on the day of the death you would send it up? A. Certainly I should. Q. No matter what happened to the body? |