the different superintendents that I was supposed to furnish nothing but good goods. The chairman of the Board buys the goods generally, and he notifies them that he buys such goods, and he has told them several times in their presence that he buys good goods of me, and that if they get anything that is not satisfactory they have a right to return it at once.

Q. Then, that instruction has been given in your presence to the various superintendents?

A. It has. They are all gathered there almost every Saturday morning, I believe, and once or twice he has notified them in my presence that he bought goods that would be satisfactory, and that if they got any that were not so they should return them.

Q. Do you sell to any other institutions except the public institutions of the City of Boston?

A. Yes, I sell to the State Almshouse at Tewksbury, the State Farm at Bridgewater, the Reformatory at Concord, the West Roxbury Insane Hospital, and several institutions for instance, like the Normal School, etc. We sell them a good many goods.

Q. Well, will you name some of the articles which you furnish? A. Well, sugar, molasses, oatmeal, tea, spices, raisins, prunes, and various other articles. Those are the staples, I think.

Q. Well, what is the quality of the goods furnished to the institutions in Boston as compared with those furnished to other institutions?

4. They are as good goods as the other institutions buy. We don't carry a separate line of goods for the institutions. For instance, oatmeal they buy the best oatmeal there is produced. Sugar-they buy more granulated sugar than anything else. Now, there is only one quality of that. And, then, in regard to molasses, they buy good cooking molasses pure molasses.

Q. Then, in your business, you have no different grade of goods for the institutions? You take what you deliver to the institutions out of your stock?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you sell the same goods to the retail trade?

A. Yes, we do a great deal of it. Of course, there are different grades of trade. For instance, we sell a great many things east. They buy a great many things of the same grade of goods. The city stores handle a better class of goods as a rule; but the oatmeal and the sugar, and most of the goods, we sell the best that is produced. There are no two or three grades in them.

Q. And your instructions from the commissioners are to furnish good goods?

A. Yes.

Q. You are acquainted, with all the members of the Board of Commissioners, are you not?

A. I am.

Q. Do you know Dr. Newell ?

A. I do.

Q. Now, has Dr. Newell called on you at your place of business at any time since you have been furnishing goods to the institutions, that you recollect of?

A. Yes, he used to come in once in a while. In fact, when he was down that way he used to drop in to see me. I was always on friendly terms with Dr. Newell.

Q. Did he call on you at your place of business during the absence of the chairman of the Board a year or two ago?

A. He did.

Q. Do you remember when that was?

4. I don't remember when it was. I don't remember just when it It was when I was connected with S. S. Sleeper & Co.

was.

Q.

And when Dr. Newell was a commissioner of public institutions? A. Yes, sir.

Q.

A.

It must have been more than eighteen months ago, then?

Yes it must have been as long ago as that.

Q.

Well, where was S. S. Sleeper's store?

And Dr. Newell came there, did he?

A. On South Market street.

Q.

A. He did.

Q.

Did he have a talk with you about the institution matters ?

A. Yes. He thought they were not buying as good goods as they

ought

Q. Did he call you aside and talk with you about it?

A. He did.

Q.

A.

Now, what was the conversation?

He said that he didn't think that Dr. Jenks was buying as good a class of goods for the institutions as he ought to, and he asked me if I didn't think that the doctor tried to buy the goods very close, and I said "Yes." Sometimes I felt as though there was no money in selling them at the price I did. He wanted to know if I would not go to the Mayor and tell him that the doctor was not buying proper goods. I told him that I could not do that, because the doctor had told the superintendents that he bought good goods, and I told him that it was optional with me, and if I didn't want to sell them at the price they could buy them at, I need not sell them. I said that he had been fair to me in the matter, and that I could not make such a report.

Q. Well, that report would not have been true, would it?

A. No, it would have been false. I could not go and make that statement, because they never had any poor goods from us.

Q. And what was his object, as he stated it to you, in getting you to go to the Mayor?

A. He told me that the doctor would not stay on the Board very long, and he thought it would be to my interest to go to the Mayor and report

Q. As a matter of fact, at that time they were getting as good goods as possible for the price they were paying, were they not?

d. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, what inducement was held out to you if you went to the Mayor with that story?

A. Well, I don't remember just what the conversation was, but it was that it would be better for me if some one else bought the goods for the city of Boston, and that perhaps I would have a chance to get more out of it— my profit would be better. That is, owing to a higher grade of goods, there would be more profit on them.

Q. But this grade of goods was the same grade that you were supplying to other institutions?

4. Yes, sir. They buy as good a grade as any of the other institutions buy.

Q. Was anything said to you at that time about the probable successor of Dr. Jenks in the chairmanship of the Board?

A.

Well, I don't remember that. I don't remember whether there was or not.

Q. Well, Dr. Jenks was the only man who was named to you as a commissioner who was to be removed?

A. He was.

Q. And Dr. Newell was to remain as a commissioner?

Q. Have you ever related this circumstance to the Mayor?

A. I did.

Q. Did you do it of your own volition?

A. No, I didn't. I didn't propose to say anything about it at all, but I was talking confidentially with General Donohoe at one time, and I told him of the matter. I didn't suppose it would go any further; and I didn't know it had until Dr. Jenks asked me if such and such a thing was true if Dr. Newell had been down to see me. and I said he had. He wanted to know the conversation and asked me to make a statement in writing. I told him I didn't care to do that, as I didn't want to get mixed up in it. Anyway, I didn't suppose that- I didn't want to get drawn into the matter. And he said, Well, the Mayor wants to see you. I went up to City Hall and saw the Mayor and talked with him and told him the circumstances.

Mr. REED. Your witness, Mr. Brandeis.

Mr. BRANDEIS. - I don't care to ask any questions. Do you, Mr. Riley ?

CROSS-EXAMINATION.

Q. (By Mr. RILEY.) Were you connected with the city government at any time?

A.

No, sir.

Q. What is the principal article you have been selling to the city ?

A. Well, in amount we sell more sugar than anything else.

Q. Now, how much a pound do you get for it?

A. Four and a sixteenth. You asked the price?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Can you name any individual in the city to whom you have sold sugar at that price?

A. Any individual?

2. Yes, sir.

4. I have sold Wall Brothers, at the South End. I have sold the United Service stores on Pearl street.

Q. Well, you sold them at the same price?

A. The price is fixed on sugar every day. We have only one price

for the granulated sugar.

Q. That is, you didn't sell the institution any cheaper than the others who applied at the store?

4. Not granulated sugar; no, sir.

Q. Well, what price did you sell it to them for?

A.

Well, the price of granulated sugar fluctuates almost every day.

Q. If you please, take the price of the other sugars

lated. What were you asking the city for the others?

A. Three and a quarter cents.

not granu

Q. Was that what you were selling it to other parties for?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. The same thing?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, will you name any other article that you supply the city. Oatmeal.

A.

Q. Yes. Do you mean to say that oatmeal commands but one price?

A. No, sir.

Q. There are many prices for oatmeal, according to the grade? A. Yes, sir, there is only one grade of oatmeal the coarse and the fine. In the quality, it is all one quality.

Mr. RILEY. Certainly. There is only one grade of whiskey and

gin.

Ald. LEE.

Mr. RILEY.

Are you sure of that?

Yes, only one.

Ald. LEE. How about Miller's Game Cock?

Mr. RILEY.

about that.

It is only at the island they would know anything

Q. (By Mr. RILEY.) What was the price you were charging for the oatmeal?

A.

Is it necessary for me to take and tell just the price and quality ? Q. If you don't understand my question, say so, and I will make it still more simple ?

A. 200 pounds

- 200 pounds.

a barrel.

Q. And was that the price you were getting from other parties?
A. No, sir.

Q. Yes; so that you charged the city less than you charged others? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And was that the same price you were charging Tewksbury the institution at Tewksbury ?

A. I don't think I sold Tewksbury any oatmeal.

Q. Now, what other article do you name?

A. Well, we sell rice - a large quantity of rice.

Q. What do you charge the city for that?

A. Charge them three cents.

Q. What do you charge others?

A. Well, all the way from three to three and a quarter cents whatever we can get.

Q. What is the price of good rice per pound?

A. Well, it varies all the way from- you can buy rice all the way from three cents to six and one-half cents and seven.

Q. You can hire men all the way from fifty cents a day to $1,000 a

day?

A. Yes, sir.

Q.

What is the price of good rice per pound?

A. Oh, from four and one-half cents to seven cents.

Q. And the city was paying you how much?

A. Three cents; but they buy a different

Q. Now, if you please. Were you selling it to anybody else as cheaply as you were to the city?

A. I think the last rice I sold Tewksbury I sold for three cents I don't just remember.

Q. Did you sell rice to any stores here at three cents a pound?

A. No, sir.

Q. You didn't?

A. No, sir.

Q. So that that price was away down?

A. Yes, sir.

Q.

A.

Q.

In other words, it was the cheapest rice you had?

Yes, sir.

What?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That is right?

A.

Q.

A.

Yes, sir.

If you tried, you couldn't get anything cheaper?
Yes, sir.

Q. Well, you didn't try to get anything cheaper?

4. Yes, sir; I had occasion to look the matter over, and I found I could get a rice for

Q. I mean you didn't try to get anything for the city at a lower

rate ?

A. No, sir.

Q. You would have been ashamed to have supplied anything worse, wouldn't you?

A. No, sir.

I was fixing the price for to-day.

Q. For to-day?

A. Yes. To-day is the 18th. Saturday I made prices. That is what I am governed by. I made prices at the commissioners' office Saturday.

Q. And what was the price you fixed on Saturday?

Is that the cheapest grade of rice you carry?
Yes, sir.

Q. So that they get down to the very cheapest grade you have? I am right, am I not?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. From you they could not get anything cheaper, now, could they? A. No, sir.

2. Now, the next article.

4. Well, there is molasses.

Q. Yes; what were you charging the city for that?

Q. Did you sell it to any other concern as low as that?

A. No, sir, we haven't.

Q. You didn't?

A. No, sir.

Q. What is the price of good molasses by the gallon?

A. Well, it is a question

price varies.

Q. Oh, no need of saying that. What is the price of good molasses

a gallon?

A.

You can buy good molasses all the way from ten cents to twentyfive cents.

Q. Ten cents is the lowest?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Yes. Twenty-five cents is the best?