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Q. Well, I have heard something about the Pierce Farm and the Austin Farm, Mr. Pilsbury; what has been done and what is being one there?

A. At the Austin Farm just prior to my entrance upon my duties as à Commissioner there was completed a dormitory building for the use of men which has been occupied since I became a Commissioner, and since that time during the two years last past there have been erected two other buildings for dormitory use and a large building known as the combinintion chapel and dining-room.

Q. That is at Austin Farmı ?
A. That is at Austin Farm.
Q. And that is to be used ?
A. For the insane.

Q. That is, they have been removed from South Boston to Austin Farm?

d. In part. There are still remaining some at South Boston.

Q. Well, it is intended, is it not, to take them all from South Boston ?

A. It is, in the near future.

Q. Well, the Pierce Farm is used for what, or is to be used for what?

A. The Pierce Farm is adjacent to the Austin Farm, very near.
Q. Well, it is a part of the same plant ?

A. Practically a part of the same plant. There have been erected two large buildings there for the use of the insane.

Q. Yes. In what year were they erected ?

X. During '93 and '94. They are almost ready for occupancy: I would add that there has been another building also erected which is for domestic purposes.

R. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Called what?

A. Known as the Domestic Building — power-house and plant for heating and cooking, etc.

Q. (By Mr. PROCTOR.) Have you in mind the figures of the amount spent for permanent improvements by your Commission during the last five years under the appropriations made by the City Council

A. Nearly if not quite a half million dollars — rather in excess, I think, as a whole.

Q. You mean that is during your time?
A. During my time.
Q. You don't go back of that — you know nothing about that?

A. No, sir. I might mention that included in that is the expenditure of $60,000 for the addition of 376 new cells at Deer Island.

Q. Well, at Deer Island have you now enough cells for all your prisoners there?

A. For only about two-thirds of the male prisoners.

Q. I see that in some recommendation made by somebody or other the "

Loafers Hall," at Deer Island, so called, ought to be abolished. What have you to say with respect to that ?

A. I agree with it fully.
Q. Well, why is it not abolished, if that is your notion ?

A. Because we have not dormitory accommodation - that is, cell accommodation - for all the men.

Q. Well, if you had cell accommodation for the men furnished by the City Government what would become of that place called the Loafers' Hall” ? A. Abolished decidedly. The principle is wrong.

Q. I have asked you something about the Parental School at West Roxbury. What has been done there?

A. Å domitory building on the cottage system with accommodations for about forty has been erected. That is ready for occupancy. A power-house and all that goes with it has been completed, and at present a system of drainage is being constructed, which is the cause for delay in occupying those buildings.

Q. How much of an expenditure have you made out there?

A. The appropriation was $125,000 and a large portion of it has been expended. It is intended to add to the plant from time to time as necessity requires.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) And the matter of drainage is the cause of delay in removing the inmates to West Roxbury?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. From South Boston ?
Mr. PROCTOR. - No, the truants.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) The cause of delay in removing the truants ?

d. From Deer Island to the Parental School; yes, sir.

Q. (By Mr. PROCTOR.) During your time, Mr. Pilsbury, what has been done at Long Island in the way of new buildings ?

A. When I became a Commissioner the inmates of Long Island were housed and cared for altogether in one building, a brick building, erected, I think, in 1886 or 1887. They were in that building, all sexes and ages and conditions, and there was about completed when I came into the Board a hospital wing which was occupied shortly after, and to that has been added a second and a third wing with an administration building, and there has also been constructed a dormitory building for the accommodation of women, which is completed.

Q. How many buildings, then, and how much money bas been expended during your term as a Commissioner on Long Island ?

4. I should say upwards of $150,000 to $200,000. That would be including the first wing of the hospital. I include that whole plant. Q. That wasn't completed until after you become Commissioner?

Wasn't quite finished - giving accommodations for about 1,350 people upon Long Island.

Q. How about the barn — the new barn at Long Island ?
d. A very excellent barn has been erected, a very nice barn.
Q. Well, is that since your incumbency as a Commissioner ?

4. During my incumbency; yes, sir. I may add that one more building has been erected -- a small building, but very essential, å morgule.

Q. Well, that had been recommended to the City Government by the Commissioners previous to its erection ?

A. Oh, yes, indeed.
Q. For a number of years ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, is there a work-house at Long Island, Mr. Pilsbury ?
ul. There is not.
Q. Where is the work-house, so called ?
A. At the House of Industry at Deer Island.

Q. That, I believe, was arranged for under a special Act of a good many years ago. Are there any commitments made to Long Island ?

A. None.

Q. Is there any work-louse authorized at Long Island as far as you have been informed ?

A. None to my understanding.

Q: The present superintendent, Dr. Cogswell, you have been acquainted with how long?

d. Since 1889.
Q. You were then in what position in 1889 ?
A. I wils a member of the Board of Health.
Q. And he was connected with that department?
A. In charge of the quarantine.

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Q. He was appointed, I believe, superintendent of Long Island by your Commission in the spring of 93." Do you remember the circumstance of his appointment ?

A. I remember that at the time of his appointment it was when the cholera epidemic was imminent and there was fear that it might be introduced into this country, and the Board of Health through its chairman objected to the change, because he felt, as he expressed it, that Dr. Cogswell's services would be very valuable at quarantine; and at that time we agreed that, in the event of the occurrence of that epidemic, we should excuse Dr. Cogswell so that he might assist or take charge of quarantine.

Q. That is, temporarily ?
A. Temporarily.

Q. And he came to you as superintendent of Long Island under that express stipulation on your part?

A. He did.

Q. There has been complaint and much talk since the beginning of these hearings, Mr. Pilsbury, with respect to the lack of classification at Long Island. What have you to say? What classification have you there?

All the classification which it is possible for us to make; namely, as far as possible the sexes are kept apart; the sick are separated from the weil; the infirm are separated from the sick, and children all infants with their mothers are separated from adults.

Q. And those separations are as complete as they could be with the present plant and buildings which you have there?

A. They certainly are.

Q. When the new building is completed, will the separation be still better?

A. Much better.

Q. I will ask you now with respect to one special thing, for fear I might overlook it. McCaffrey, when he testified, swore that he saw Smith drunk on Long Island on December 7, that that was the last time he saw him there in that condition. Now, McCaffrey also testified that he left the island on the 7th of December. Did you ever hear McCaffrey make any statenient with respect to the times that he had seen Smith intoxicated at Long Island ?

A. I did.
Q. Where was that?
A. At a hearing upon the matter of the drunkenness of Mr. Smith.
Q. Before you as a Commissioner ?

A. Before one of my associates and myself as a committee from the Board.

Q. At that time was McCallrey put under oath ?
A. He was.

Q. At that time did he testify that Smith was intoxicated on Long Island on the 21st of May and the 22d of December?

4. He did.

Q. He now testifies that he wasn't on Long Island Sundays, excepting when Dr. Cogswell was away in October, and a reference to the calendar indicates that the 21st of May was Sunday.

4. That is a fact.
Q. Do you know Smith's handwriting ?
A. I do.
Q. Will you examine that? (Handing letter to witness.)

That is in Mr. Smith's handwriting.
Q. Did you receive that letter from him?
Å. I did. (Reading :)



BOSTON HARBOR, January 5, 1894. HON. E. L. PilsBURY:

DEAR SIR: In regard to the statement made by Mr. McCaffrey, that on tlie 21st of May last he saw me in the receiving-room overcome by liquor, now he could not have done so, as he was not on the island that day, and I have proof to that effect.



Complaint has been made, Mr. Pilsbury, that the paupers at Long Island are not made to work. With respect to that, did you know of the opinion given by the Corporation Counsel in 1892 to Mr. Morison ?

A. I did, sir.

Q. And that it was doubtful if there was any authority to make them work at Long Island ?

A. It certainly was, most unfortunately.

Q. Was that the authority upon which you relied in the course which the Commission took, so far as you were concerned.

A. It was so far as I was concerned. That was early in my association with the Board. Naturally I would depend upon it.

Q. Of course. I believe we all agree that it is a desirable thing to have the paupers employed.

A. I certainly agree to it.

Q. What would be the necessities of the case at Long Island if the paupers were to be employed, with respect to work-sbops ?

4. Necessary to obtain an appropriation from the City Government which would enable us to erect the same, construct and equip.

Q. You could not build work-shops and equip them, even if it were the law that you could employ them, without an appropriation from the City Government?

Ă. We could not.

Q. No matter how much they might thereafter add to the revenue of your department?

4. Could not.
Q. And reduce the appropriation for the maintenance ?

A. Could not. I might say there, Mr. Proctor, that the annual appropriation is made for specific purposes.

Q. Yes, and you are obliged to use it for those purposes ?
A. We are

Q. Well, has the Board, during your incumbency as a Commissioner, been employed in making improvements in buildings and plants and various departments of the department, and has your time been pretty thoroughly taken up with that?

A. Certainly it has; more extensively, I think I may safely say, than any of our predecessors have been not to the discredit of our predecessors, but because we have had the appropriations, as far as they


Q. But your appropriations have been made for specific purposes ?

A. Specific purposes all of them, and we cannot take, Mr. Proctor, from one appropriation to apply to another without coming to the City Council.

Q. I assume, in view of the statements which you have made as to your views on the subject, that when the imperative necessities of the department in the way of buildings have been taken care of, you would then be ready to take care of these other things in which you believe?

4. Be only too happy to have the opportunity.

Q. Some complaints, Mr. l'ilsbury, have been made about the food. How does the Commission purchase food ?

A. Twice a month requisitions are made by the superintendents, and at the same time, on the 1st and 15th, bids are received from the dealers in the various articles, particularly subsistence and upon competition, and the lowest bidder, all else being equal, sells the goods to the department.

Q. How is he paid – is it il sale for cash ?
A. Practically cash.
Q. How soon does he get his money?
Ă. Within thirty days.
Q. That is, there is no long term ?
A. None.
Q. Does that assist in getting low bids ?

A. Very materially, because we are large buyers and payment is assured.

Q. Now, I think Dr. Newell said something about Dr. Jenks doing all the buying. What is the fact with respect to that? Has Dr. Jenks been willing that the other Commissioners should do the buying if they wished ?

A. He has been. And as a fact the chairman does all the buying.

Q. But has he not stated to you and Mr. Devlin that if you wished to do the buying you might do it, but he would like to merely finish one month

that is, the current month, in which he was buying? A. No, sir; that statement was not made during my incumbency. I heard that it had been made, but it would be hearsay evidence.

Q. That statement, you understand, was made before your incumbency?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, the doctor has been directed by a vote to purchase, as I understand it — or by agreement.

A. By agreement.

Q. Have you ever at any time inspected or investigated as to the quality of the subsistence furnished ?

A. I think when I became a member of the Board I visited the various institutions, and made it my particular business to examine the goods and the qualities of the goods.

Q. Well, what was the quality then ?
A. The same as it is to-day.
Q. Well, what was it, good or bad ?
A. Good.

Q. Have you ever made any investigation upon any complaints made by any person that the quality of food was not good?

4. I have. Q. Do you remember when you ever made such an investigation ?

A. I couldn't state the date. I think it was '93. I made a report upon it at the time.

Q. Will you examine that paper? In whose hand writing is that?
A. Mine.
Q. Was that a report drawn up by you?
d. It was.

Q. What investigations did you make, or does the report itself show?

4. The report itself shows.
Q. Then I can save time by putting in the report.


No. 14 BEACON STREET, Boston, August 29, 1893. DR. THOMAS L. JENKS, Chairman, Board of Commissioners of Priblic

Institutions : DEAR SIR: Your committee, to whom was referred "The verbal complaint of poor food furnished and poor management of the inmates at Long

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