A. Well, that depends on how you put the thing, you know.
You might say, to prove that, that the buildings ought to have
burned down in the last three years, that didn't.
I don't suppose

it is possible for a fire to occur down there that would require
anything more than a simple pipe-line service, but if the main
should be frozen, say, in January, and the water-supply cut off
for one week, two weeks, or three weeks, and there was not a
reservoir there, it would be a question of providing some way to get
water to the buildings, either by putting a pump down to the salt
water, or by having the fire-boat go down there to supply the
buildings, and the most easy way of storing is to store the water
on the ground, in a reservoir.

Q. (By Ald. LEE.) I understand, Mr. Jackson, that 1888 was the first time a main was laid to connect Long Island with

water.

A. In 1888 the work was commenced, finished in 1889.

Q. And the break occurred when?

A. The break occurred in 1893.

Q. And have you been asked about the cause of that break?
A. The cause was the extreme cold weather, the long continued
supply of cold weather, which chilled the water in the harbor to
about twenty-eight, and the water in the pipe between Long and
Moon islands froze.

Q. Well, that pipe, then, had been in service from 1889?
A. To 1893.

Q. Now, when that pipe was laid, at that time it was supposed it was sunk deep enough so that there would be sufficient protection against the cold?

A. When that pipe was laid it was buried at the bottom of the bay, and was cased in wood and surrounded by lime. That was

as a protection against the action of the sewage in the bay, which discharges at that point, and also incidentally might serve as a protection against freezing.

Q. Well, now, you know what month it was that that main broke?

A. January, 1893.

Q. Now, there has been some evidence here that there was a delay in having that repaired. Do you know what was the cause of the delay in repairing that pipe?

A. Well, cold weather and high winds. You couldn't repair it until the weather got warm enough so that a man could work there and find out what the matter was.

Q. When you say so, that a man could work there, you mean a diver?

A. Has to be done by divers; yes, sir.

Q. And with the temperature of the water it was hard to find a man who would attempt to go down and repair it?

A. Well, they don't do anything when they do attempt it, as a matter of fact.

Q. That is, it has been a useless expense?

A. A useless expense; yes, sir; cheaper to carry water down to the island.

Q. Cheaper than it would be to have them start in and repair it at that time?

A. Yes, better and surer.

Q. Well, what protection have they now against the same danger of a break? What is the change that has been made?

A. Well, the reservoir has been built on the island, and if a break occurred now, you have got one and a quarter million gallons stored there for use.

Q. And the breaking of the pipe at that time brought it more vividly to the attention of the Commissioners, the Water Board, and you, that a reservoir should be built?

A. Well, it convinced the Water Board, the Directors, and myself that a reservoir must be built, that it was an imperative necessity.

Q. Now, I may not get it through me as clearly as Alderman Lomasney, but I understood you to say that in 1888 under the old Board of Directors they were contemplating the building of a reservoir, and you were shown where it was going to be built. Did you go to Long Island?

A. I went to Long Island; yes.

Q. And found that it was being built on low ground?

A. Well, that was merely an incident of the trip. I was not asked to approve it, as I remember. In fact, I don't remember much about that, as that was work which was being done by the directors themselves I couldn't say whether it was in 1888 or 1889, because it wasn't a matter to which my attention was especially directed.

Q. You didn't go down there for that purpose?

A. No.

Q. But if your attention had been called to the building of that reservoir on that low land you would have recommended its being abandoned, and placed, as I understood you to say, on higher ground?

it.

A. As soon as it was called to my attention I did recommned

Q. That it be placed on higher ground?

A. Yes, sir.

Now, is that reservoir built there now high enough to let the water go to any of the buildings, or must it be pumped to the top?

A. It is high enough to allow the water to go to the top of the buildings.

Q. (By Ald. LOMASNEY). During the break, Mr. Jackson, what protection was there on the island against fire in the way of water?

A. I don't know anything about that. They have some reservoirs on the island which they keep filled, and they had the same protection which they had years and years before. I don't know what that was, I am sure.

Q. What was the ordinary protection against fire there when the break was there and they had no water from the mains?

A. The same protection they had before the main was laid down

there. I didn't know what it was and don't know to-day. I know they had some protection.

Q. Well, you knew they were carrying water by water-boat? A. I understood that was to drink.

Q. What other protection against fire?

A. I don't know. I believe they had some storage reservoirs about the buildings. I don't know what they are - cisterns.

Q. Well, about how many cisterns are or were there?

A. I don't know.

Q. Did you ever see them?

A. I don't know whether there were any or not.

Q. Of your own knowledge?

A. No, sir.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) You spoke of the break in the waterpipe in January or February, '93, on account of the cold?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That wasn't a long break or interruption was it, in '93?
A. No.

Q. What were the others?

4. When the pipe was being repaired — let's see. In '93 the pipe was frozen, and then as soon as the weather became so that we could go to work there, I think a wrought-iron pipe was laid across the channel pending the purchase of a cast-iron pipe to replace the broken pipe, and later on, after the broken pipe had been laid, it was necessary to break the connection between the wroughtiron pipe and the permanent pipe and remake the connections, and then there were various leaks which had to be repaired, and it took some time to make the pipe tight. I don't know exactly how many interruptions there were during that time — quite a number.

Q. How long, according to your recollection, was the second break the break that came in the fall? How long was there a discontinuance of water then?

A. Well, in the fall, I think, there was a break from the joints breaking out, or a vessel's anchor pulling joints out, I don't know which. I don't suppose anybody will ever know.

Q. Do you know how long that break continued?

A. No, sir; I wouldn't know about that necessarily.

Q. Dr. Cogswell stated that it was from September 25 to November 3 that they were without the city water I mean the fall break, not the one just testified to?

A. The fall of '93?

Q. Yes, sir; September 25, 1893, to November 3?

4. I couldn't say without looking up the records.

Q. Now, Mr. Jackson, you spoke about the pipes serving to . January, '93 how do you account for the fact that the Commissioners reported the cost of water for Long and Rainsford islands for the year ending 1892 as $1,430?

A. 1892?

Q. Yes, sir. Mr. Pilsbury testified that the cost, the amount they paid for the water, was $2,500 per year.

A. Then there must have been some interruption that I overlooked in looking up the records.

Q. And in case of those interruptions they have always brought the water from Deer Island in a boat at $40 a day for transportation?

A. I don't know about that.

Q. But they did bring it from Deer Island?

A. I don't know where they did bring it from, I am sure. There might have been a break in 1892, but if there was I didn't find it by looking at the records.

Q. I understood Mr. Pilsbury to testify that there had been previous breaks, and I wanted to know whether you wish to make a different statement, and have simply referred to those figures in the report of the Commissioners showing that they have paid $1,430 in one year for water, whereas $2,500 is the annual eharge? 4. Well, that is a matter of record. If you desire I will look it up.

Q. I shall be very glad to have you, Mr. Jackson.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. (By Ald. BARRY.) Are there any other islands that take water from that same supply? I understand it is a five-inch pipe, is it not?

A. A six-inch pipe.

Q. Are there any others that take water from the same pipe as it comes down through Neponset, and over to long Island?

A. Yes, the others are Thompson's Island, Moon Island, Long Island, Rainsford Island, Galloup's Island, and Castle Island — I don't mean that, Fort Warren.

Q. Well, isn't there a charge made to those islands for the water-supply?

A. There is a charge made to Thompson's Island, a charge made to Fort Warren. I don't know whether there is any charge

made to Galloup's or not.

Q. Well, is the revenue received from that more than enough to pay the interest on the amount? I understand that it costs about $45,000 to lay that pipe.

A. Well, I don't know exactly what the income is, and I couldn't answer.

Q. You don't know about that?

A. No, sir.

Q. (By Mr. PROCTOR.) As I understand it, Mr. Jackson, the reservoir first proposed was commenced before the introduction of city water at all?

A. I don't know when it was commenced.

Q. Well, but there was no city water conveyed to the island by means of a pipe before the present Commission went into operation, was there?

A. Eighteen hundred and eighty-eight was the first work done on laying a pipe there. I am not sure about when that first reservoir was built, might have been '88, '90, '91, or '92, for all I

know.

Q. Then you cannot say when the first reservoir was began, but you think it was during the term of service of the Board of Directors?

A. I think so. I am not sure.

Q. Now, at the time that that was begun was the city water conveyed to Long Island by means of a pipe or main?

A. The city water was first conducted to Long in '89.

Q. That is, the pipe was completed, was it?

4. The pipe was completed in '89; yes.

Q. But this reservoir, you say, was in a bad place, this first one?

A. It was in a place where all the water in the reservoir if pumped would have been of use.

Q. It was where, I suppose, there would have been drainage from the island in the vicinity of the reservoir?

A. Well, not necessarily.

Q. Not necessarily but likely?

A. That depends on the measures taken to carry the drainage away from it.

Q. This first reservoir was never completed?

A. No.

Q. It was filled up, was it?

A. Yes.

Q. And a reservoir was begun in a more suitable place?

A. Well, yes, in my opinion.

Q. Well, I am asking for your opinion. That was begun when? When were the plans drawn for that reservoir?

A. '92 or '93, I think I am not sure.

Q. It might have been '92, so far as your memory is concerned? A. I think the date on the plan will show that.

Q. (By Ald. LEE.) Have you got the plan here?

A. I have got a plan here.

Q. (By Mr. PROCTER.) When were you able to get high pressure at Long Island?

A. High pressure was first connected with Long Island about a a little more than a year ago.

year

2. Before that they had not had it?

A. Well, I don't think they need it to-day.

Q. Well, you think they don't need it, but before that had they had it?

A. No, they had not.

Q. Is that necessary to fill the reservoir?

A. No.

Q. As I understand it, from this water main which supplies Long Island, Rainsford Island is also supplied?