Where have you practised?

Q.

Anywhere else?

A. About eight years.

A. I have practised here and in New York and Chicago.

4.

And anywhere else?
Nowhere else.

Q. Now, as I understand it, the period of your practice covers eight years?

A. Oh, I have practised for twenty years, about.

Q. But I understand that you have only had your degree eight years? A. I have practised about eight years; yes.

Q. How long were you in Chicago?

A. Well, I was there once about two years.

Q.

What?

A. I was there once about two years.

Q. Well, have you practised there more than once?

A. Yes, sir - I was brought from there here.

Q. How long did you practise in New York ?

A. Well, about six years, pretty near.

Q. Well, that makes eight years?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And I am asking, of course, since you got you degree - where you have practised since you got your degree?

A. Well, since I have had that I have only practised about five years, I guess.

Q. And those five years was where?

A. Some of them in New York and some in Chicago.

Q. Then you haven't practised here or in Lowell since you got your

degree?

A. Yes.

Q. You left that out?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You have practised in both places?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then in the eight years since you have had your degree, you have practised in those four places?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Which place did you practise in first after you got your degree? A. New York.

Q. How long did you stay there that time ?

A. I don't remember exactly.

Q. Well, you have some idea, I suppose?

Q. How long was it

was it a month or a year?

A. Oh, it was over a year, surely.

Q. Well, how did you happen to leave and go to Chicago?

A. Well, that would be going into my family matters, which I would

rather not do.

Q. Oh, if you don't wish to testify to it, I don't care to have you. How long did you stay in Chicago?

A. About two years.

Q. Then where did you go?

A.

Then I went away and didn't practise. I went away travelling through Europe.

Q.

What were you doing travelling?

A. I went with Professor Baldwin through Europe.

Q. What doing?

A.

I went with him as his private secretary.

Q.

That is, you abandoned the practice of medicine?

A. Yes, sir.

Q.

Then you came back again?

A. Yes, sir.

Q.

And where did you practise then?

A. I came back to New York again.

Q. How long did you practise in New York?

A. I don't remember exactly, I am sure, about dates and times. I haven't got exact dates, because I haven't paid any attention to them? Q. Where did you go then?

A. I came to Lowell, I think.

Q. How did you happen to leave New York at that time?

A.

That is family matters.

Q. Yes

very well. Then, when you went to Lowell how long did

you practise in Lowell?

A. Four months.

Q. And you haven't told us about practising in Boston at all yet.
A. Well, I practised here about a year, I guess.

Q. When was that?

À. Well, let me see — it was about six years ago, I guess.

That is, you practised in this place and that place and the other? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you were not very successful in the practice of medicine? A. Yes, sir: I have been quite successful.

Q. What did you come here for, doctor?

4. Conspiracy, I believe was the charge. Q. Conspiracy to do what?

A. Something in the banking arrangements.

Q. What did they call it?

A. They called it "conspiracy to defraud."

Q. They didn't call it a conspiracy to bank, did they?

A. No, I don't think they did.

Q. You came here in February?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where was this conspiracy, as they call it? Where was it car

Then you were not practising medicine at that time?

A. Yes, I was. I was only director of this banking business.

1

A. I was in Chicago at the time that the others were arrested. I didn't wait to be arrested.

Only once?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, you said, "Oh, yes,
Oh, yes, "so that I supposed you must have been

several times.

4. Well, I suppose that every one in this place knew about it.

Q. Well, I didn't happen to have the honor to know. How many times did you say you were arrested before?

Q. That is, an allopath, and whatever you see that you like to use?
Whatever I see that cures, I use.

A.

Q.

And of course Dr. Bancroft is one of the old school?

A. Yes, sir, he is.

Q.

Now, there is some little friction among you men of science?

Q. And the allopaths don't like the eclectics very well, and the eclectics think the allopaths are old fogies?

A. He shows it more than I do.

Q. But I am right when I say that there is not good feeling between them ?

A.

Yes, sir.

Q. I suppose you would be glad to leave the machines and go into the hospital to assist the doctor?

A.

Well, not under his direction.

Q. Well, then, there is some friction between you and him?

A. No, not personally that way; but in regard to his treatment, because I should not sit there with medicine at my hand and let them suffer and they not have the medicine, if I knew they needed it.

Q. (By Ald. LOMASNEY.) Did you ask to appear before this com

mittee?

A. No.

Q. How did you happen to come before this committee?

A. Well, I expressed my desire first—oh, this time? Oh, this is the same committee that has been here before - yes, certainly. I'did think

then I would like to appear before the committee when you were here before.

Q. Did you express a desire to do so?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. To whom?

4.

To the colonel.

Q. Was the committee in session when you did it?

A. No.

Q. It was after we had gone?

A. No I don't remember. I think it was right after you had gone. Yes, I didn't know when you went. that was the real fact.

Q. Did you desire to come before the committee yourself?

A. Yes, sir.

Q.

A.

And the colonel said then he would attend to it?
Yes, sir.

Q. Did he ask you what you were going to testify to?

A.

No, sir.

Ald. LOMASNEY.

That is all.

The WITNESS.-There is one other thing that I would like to speak of, and that is in regard to this gas. The gaslight that is furnished to the men in those cells is a cruel inhumanity.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) What is it?

A. The gas that shines into the cells.

Q. (By Ald. LOMASNEY.) You mean for reading purposes?

A. It is too far away, and it makes a man who wants to read hurt his eyes. You know it is a great temptation to want to read, and it destroys one's eyes, almost.

Q. You believe that the gas jets should be very much nearer to the cells?

A. Yes, sir.

2. (By Mr. PROCTOR.) Well, the cell door itself is a hindrance in reading, of course, even if you did have the gaslight near enough? A. Yes, it is that has something to do with it. The CHAIRMAN.

That is all.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) What is your name?
A. Thomas Shaughnessy is the name I am under.

Q. Well, you are here to give what information you have in your possession in regard to the administraiion of the affairs of this institution. The committee wants to say that you are not obliged to answer any questions that may tend to criminate yourself. Do you understand?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. (By Ald. LEE.) How long have you been here, Mr. Shaughnessy ?

A. Between six and seven mouths.

Q. And how much longer have you to serve ?

A. I was transferred from Concord — indefinitely.

Q. Well, I suppose you mean by that that the time you are here de

pends somewhat

What was the reason for transferring you here?

A. I believe for an habitual criminal-I think so, but I am not That is merely a theory.

sure.

Q. That is, after you had been sentenced to Concord they found out that you had been arrested before?

A. Yes, sir-I was there for the second time this time.

Q. Now. what has been the treatment that you have received here? A. Well, I consider the treatment has been better than I deserve.

Q.

A.

Q.

A.

Better than what?

Better than I deserve, as a criminal.

Better than you deserve as a what?
As a criminal.

Q. Oh, yes. Now, what do you mean by that?

A.

Well, I don't think a prisoner should receive as good treatment as some do here?

Q.

Well, have you ever been punished since you have been here? A. No, sir.

Q. Never been punished?

A. No, sir

Q. Well, have you known of any prisoners that have been punished here?

4. I have heard them speak of it. I never saw any punished. I never saw any one locked up.

Q. What shop are you in?

A. No. 3.

Q. Has there been any time since you have been in the shop or in the institution here that there has been any trouble or riots in the shop? A. I was here in July, I think, at the time of the riot. I didn't see what was the cause of it. I heard a shot fired. I didn't see who fired it, or I didn't see well, I didn't see who fired it, and that is enough, because my back was to the man that fired it. I didn't see it.

Q. Well, was there any trouble in the shop?

A.

Not in that shop. I believe not.

Q. There was no trouble in the shop that you were in?

A. No, sir; not that I know of. I cannot say that there wasn't, but not that I know of.

Q. Have you known of anybody in the shop since you have been here that has been punished?

A. Well, not that I have seen. There has been men punished, I have heard them speak of it, but I never saw it.

Q. Do you know what the causes were?

A.

Well, two weeks ago last Saturday I saw one young fellow fire chairs and a spittoon at an officer.

Q. Two weeks ago?

A. I think it was two weeks ago two weeks ago Saturday, if I am not mistaken.

Q.

A.

Who was he?

I don't know what his name was. He fired it at Mr. Neff.

Q. Well, then, your opininion is, that if a man behaves himself here he will not be punished?

A.

That is my opinion.

Q. Now, as to the food that you receive — have you any complaint to make of that?