Mr. HASKELL. I have not announced that. That was brought out in Col. Miner's address yesterday.

Mr. FORDNEY. What were you using that number of bushels in connection with?

Mr. HASKELL. I wanted to show the importance of the corn crop in the country to-day.

Mr. FORDNEY. Oh; I misunderstood you.

Mr. MOORE. What did you say the crop was?

Mr. HASKELL. 3,044,535,000 bushels.

Mr. FORDNEY. That is right. I misunderstood you.

Mr. DIXON. Do you know what percentage of it is used on the farm and what percentage in commerce?

Mr. HASKELL. I can not give you positive facts now or statistics, but I presume that 100,000,000 bushels of corn are used for human consumption, the rest of it being fed in different ways.

Mr. Tanner, of the Ohio Wheat Flour Millers' Association, made a remark a few minutes ago that I take very strong objections to. He was asked if he knew of any honest miller of corn flour and wheat flour who objected to the present tax on mixed flour

Mr. FORDNEY. I asked the question that you have reference to, but I did not ask him that.

Mr. HASKELL. Somebody asked him that.

Mr. FORDNEY. I said wheat flour, not wheat and corn.

Mr. HASKELL. Wheat flour and corn flour.

Mr. FORDNEY. No; I did not include corn flour. Pardon me. I did not intend to do it if I did. I had reference to the manufacture of wheat flour alone when I asked that question.

Mr. HASKELL. I beg your pardon. I wanted to bring out the fact, if that was the question as I understood it; I wanted to defend Col. Miner, inasmuch as he is absent. Col. Miner has been in the milling business longer than anybody connected with this fight; that is, his family has, dating back to seventeen hundred and something. I have forgotten when it was; but that was brought out in his address.

Mr. FORDNEY. I asked him if he knew of any manufacturer of "honest" flour. I put it that way, and then I said "wheat flour." I said: "Do you know of any who are opposed to the repeal of this law?" That is the question I asked him. So I think you misunderstood my question.

Mr. HASKELL. I hope that I misunderstood the question on account of Mr. Tanner. I know him very well, and I would hate to think for a minute that he would take that responsibility.

Mr. MOORE. I wish to say that Col. Miner stands very high in the milling business in Pennsylvania; and I sat next to Mr. Fordney, and I did not understand Mr. Fordney to make any reflection on him. Mr. TANNER. I do not think my answer reflected on Col. Miner. I did not say anything about his motive in being opposed to this. Mr. FORDNEY. Did you understand my question?

Mr. TANNER. Yes. I did not reflect on Col. Miner, and did not intend to.

Mr. HASKELL. There has been considerable discussion as to whether or not there is such a thing as corn flour; and if it is not clear in the minds of the committee that there is such an article as corn flour, that has been made for years, I would like to have an opportunity of proving it to this committee as well as to the wheat-flour

millers that there is such a thing being made and sold to-day in large quantities.

Mr. FORDNEY As corn flour?

Mr. HASKELL. As corn flour; yes, sir.

Mr. FORDNEY. Commercially known as corn flour?

Mr. HASKELL. Commercially known as corn flour; a pure corn flour, made from nothing else and adulterated with nothing else. Mr. FORDNEY. Can you put that in a brief or in some way, so that the committee can have it?

Mr. HASKELL. I said I would be glad to produce sufficient proof to the committee that there is such an article.

Mr. LIND. What is it used for?

Mr. HASKELL. For food purposes-for human beings.

Mr. MOORE. Will you tell us where it is sold? Perhaps that is the best way.

Mr. HASKELL. It is sold throughout the country. It is sold in Europe.

Mr. MOORE. In what cities in the United States can you buy it as corn flour?

Mr. HASKELL. I can not pick out any one city. I can not tell you any cities it is not sold in.

Mr. MOORE. Dr. Wesener indicated a little while ago that he did not know of its being commercially used. He said he could get it, but he said he did not know where it was disposed of as a commodity.

Mr. HASKELL. I should be very much surprised if it could not be bought in Washington. It is not handled as freely as wheat flour. Mr. MOORE. You say the crop was over 3,000,000,000 bushels last year?

Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOORE. And of that amount, 100,000,000 bushels went into the food supply for human beings?

Mr. HASKELL. The consumption of human beings.

Mr. MOORE. In this country and in Europe?

Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOORE. Did it go into consumption as corn flour, or did it go into consumption as cornstarch or corn meal?

Mr. HASKELL. A large portion of the corn that my association members grind is used for the making of what is known as hominy. That is a large part of the corn, after it is cracked.

Mr. MOORE. For corn pone, corn bread?

Mr. HASKELL. We are getting into that. This hominy, you know, is soaked and boiled. Then there is a hominy grit that goes into the making of breakfast foods. You have all eaten toasted corn flakes. Those are made out of white corn.

Mr. FORDNEY. Is there not an article called frumentum?

Mr. HASKELL. That is used in brewing.

Mr. FORDNEY. Very largely used for that purpose?

Mr. HASKELL. There are grits that are used in the brewing of beer. Mr. FORDNEY. How much corn is used for that purpose?

Mr. HASKELL. I can not tell you that, but I guess there is considerable used for that.

Mr. FORDNEY. This corn flour that you say may be found in any city-before it is used, cooked, and put on the table for food, is it mixed with anything else?

Mr. HASKELL. It depends on whether they want to or not. If they want corn cakes, they do not have to mix it.

Mr. FORDNEY. Do they make corn cake out of corn flour?

Mr. HASKELL. Oh, yes.

Mr. FORDNEY. I think they do that over in the House restaurant, and I do not want them. I always send them back.

Mr. HASKELL. I prefer it. It is a difference of opinion.

Mr. MOORE. Does it go into the manufacture of cereals?

Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOORE. That is a part of the consumption of 100,000,000 bushels?

Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOORE. Does it go into such specialities as Post Toasties?
Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir; that is made out of corn grits.

Mr. MOORE. Toasted corn flakes?

Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOORE. Such corn as goes into that sort of consumption for that sort of manufacture is a part of the 100,000,000 bushels that you say are disposed of for food purposes, human food purposes?

Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOORE. I will ask you why you distinguish yourself as a whitecorn millers' association? From whom do you want to separate in making that distinction?

Mr. HASKELL. There is a great difference between yellow corn and white corn. In the South yellow corn is a drug on the market. They want white corn.

Mr. MOORE. What do they use yellow corn in the South for, exclusively?

Mr. HASKELL. For feeding.

Mr. MOORE. Not for human food?

Mr. HASKELL. No, sir.

Mr. MOORE. The white corn, then, is the only corn that is used for human food?

Mr. HASKELL. No. In the North the condition is just the reverse. People in the North only know yellow corn meal

Mr. MOORE. But the southern people do not use the yellow corn for food purposes?

Mr. HASKELL. No, sir.

Mr. FORDNEY. I have spent much of my time in the South, and you can go any time in the States of Mississippi, or Florida, or Georgia, or Alabama and see yellow corn made into johnnie cakes.

Mr. HASKELL. Sure, you can; but I am telling you what is used to the greatest extent in the South is white corn, because that is a matter of record. I am not going to make any remarks here that I can not substantiate.

Mr. FORDNEY. I understood you to say that yellow corn was not used in the South.

Mr. HASKELL. No; I did not. I said white corn was used to a greater extent, practically almost entirely.

Mr. MOORE. Do the yellow-corn manufacturers join with you in asking the repeal of the existing law?

Mr. HASKELL. No, sir; I just represent the white-corn millers.

Mr. MOORE. Then there are other corn manufacturers that may have views on that subject apart from yours?

Mr. HASKELL. I do not think there is any doubt about that. Whether they are as interested in this thing as I am or not, I do not know. Apparently not. But it is no more than proper to presume that white corn is the logical corn to use in the blending of all wheat flour.

Mr. MOORE. Is it not true that yellow corn would not blend with wheat flour, and therefore it does not enter into the controversy at all at the present time?

Mr. HASKELL. That is true.

Mr. MOORE. It would be detected at once, would it not?

Mr. HASKELL. Very readily detected; it could not help but be. Mr. MOORE. Therefore white corn is about the only corn that would have any chance of being successfully blended with flour? Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Any land that would grow yellow corn would grow white corn, would it not?

Mr. HASKELL. According to the Government report, the white-corn crop exceeded the yellow-corn crop by over 10,000,000 bushels.

Mr. FORDNEY. That does not answer the gentleman's question. His question was, "Would any soil that would produce white corn also produce yellow corn, or vice versa, in the same quantities?" Mr. HASKELL. I understand that that is not the case.

There is

a lot of land in many States where they can not grow very much white corn.

The CHAIRMAN. I am referring to where they grow corn in this country. They can grow just the same amount of yellow corn to the acre as they can white corn.

Mr. HASKELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOORE. Just one more question and I am through. If the Rainey bill should pass, permitting blending of the products of white corn with wheat, what would become of yellow corn as a food product?

Mr. HASKELL. It would still remain a food product, in my opinion. Mr. MOORE. But you would be giving a preference to white corn over yellow corn.

Mr. HASKELL. No, sir.

Mr. MOORE. Yellow corn would have no chance to be blended with wheat if we passed a bill of this kind, would it?

Mr. HASKELL. If they want to; if a flour mixer wants to blend yellow meal with flour he has that privilege.

Mr. MOORE. What chance would it ever stand with the consuming public when white corn was blended or mixed with wheat flour and yellow corn would show its color?

Mr. HASKELL. This is no burglar scheme of mixing white corn flour with wheat flour; we want to do it legitimately, and we believe

we can.

Mr. MOORE. But is it not the fact that the southern corn raiser would be out of competition with the white-corn grower?

Mr. HASKELL. All the States grow white corn that grow yellow

corn.

Mr. MOORE. But yellow corn would not stand in the same relation to wheat that white corn does; therefore that corn grown in the Southern States would probably be fed to the horses, while white

corn in the other States would have a fair chance to be fed to human beings as mixed flour. Is not that a fair interpretation of the situation?

Mr. HASKELL. I do not look at it in that way.

Mr. LANNEN. May I ask a question to clear up that situation? The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. LANNEN. The starch of yellow corn is just as white as the starch in white corn, is it not?

Mr. HASKELL. I know nothing about that. I am talking about what I am interested in and why the white-corn millers of this country are interested in this Rainey bill.

Mr. FORDNEY. I have asked this question several times. Would you be satisfied if Congress should repeal the stamp tax and permit the balance of this law to remain?

Mr. HASKELL. Personally, no; no, I would not.

Mr. FORDNEY. Why?

Mr. HASKELL. You would put restrictions on the users of our product, and anybody should be permitted to use corn flour in mixing it with white flour or anything else as long as it makes a good, wholesome food product.

Mr. FORDNEY. You can do that under existing law.

Mr. HASKELL. You can do that under existing law with a certain amount of red tape and restrictions.

Mr. FORDNEY. You object to the red tape only?

Mr. HASKELL. No, sir; we object to the tax and penalty.

Mr. FORDNEY. But I say, suppose we repeal that tax and let the remainder of the law stand and subject the manufacturer of mixed flour to the same inspection law and restrictions, but relieve him of the tax.

Mr. HASKELL. No, sir; I would not accept that.

Mr. FORDNEY. Then the red tape is the thing you object to.

Mr. HASKELL. I object to the whole thing. It discriminates against corn. You are penalizing an industry simply because some of the flour millers at one time or other saw fit to put barytes in the flour, or whatever it was some mineral composition-and the corn people have suffered for that.

Mr. FORDNEY. I do not want to be rude, but I am convinced right now that your remark a minute ago answers my question, that you want yourself in the place of a burglar; you want to get in

Mr. HASKELL. We do not. I do not stand here as putting myself in that position.

Mr. OLDFIELD. What you want to do is to be placed on the same plane with the wheat flour people.

Mr. HASKELL. We want to put white-corn goods on the market so that they can be consumed in the bread-making industry in this

country.

Mr. FORDNEY. The manufacturer of wheat flour is subject to the same law if he wants to mix his wheat with your corn flour that you are if you want to mix your corn flour with his wheat flour, and pays the biggest part of the tax

Mr. HASKELL. But the objection of the wheat millers to this is that if the tax is repealed it is going to put the country back into the same state of demoralization as to the flour business that occurred in 1895 to 1898.