Mr. WINCH. I should like to inquire of the counsel for the petitioners how much time he desires.

Mr. TRAIN. I do not wish to be unreasonable, but at the same time I do not wish to come in again unless I am thoroughly prepared. I would endeavor to be ready by Wednesday evening, although I would prefer a week. I assure the Committee that I regret very much to make the motion, but under the circumstances, I feel obliged to do it, having had no opportunity to make any preparation. To-morrow being Saturday, which is a busy day, I suppose, to gentlemen down town, Sunday intervening, I would endeavor to get ready by Wednesday evening, but I would prefer a longer time. In making this suggestion, I am bound to say, that I think we ought to defer somewhat to the wishes of the gentlemen on the other side who are represented here.

Mr. SMITH. I will change my motion to Wednesday evening.
The CHAIRMAN. Is that satisfactory to Mr. Kingsbury?
Mr. KINGSBURY. Yes, sir.

The question was then put, and the motion, that when the Committee adjourn, it be to meet Wednesday evening, at 71 o'clock, was carried.

The CHAIRMAN. Has any gentleman any suggestion to make in regard to the continuation of the hearing this evening?

Mr. FLYNN. I desire to ask, Mr. Chairman, through you, if the gentleman representing the petitioners has any witnesses present this evening whose testimony might be put in.

Mr. TRAIN. I am not aware that I have. I have been furnished with a list since I came into the hall this evening, and that is all the knowledge I have in relation to any witnesses. I supposé I am furnished with the names of gentlemen who, it is suggested by the list, would be proper persons for me to call. I am not aware of any gentleman whom I might call this evening, and I should not feel at liberty to call a witness with whom I had not first conferred, in order that I might know to what branch of the inquiry to direct my interrogatories.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to suggest to the counsel on both sides, and to all interested, that as far as I know the minds of the Committee, they are desirous for a full, fair, and honest investigation of this matter. They are also anxious that it should be had at as early a moment as is compatible with fair dealing, and without driving the matter too much. We all know that on the first day of May, the appropriations for the city for the year are arranged, and this matter ought be settled previous to that time, to do justice to either party.

Mr. DICKINSON. If I may be allowed a word at this point, I desire to say, that so far as I can learn, there is no disposition on the part of any of these petitioners here, or on the part of any gentleman of the Council whose views do not coincide with those of some of the people of East Boston in regard to free ferries, to put this matter off beyond the first of May. I make this remark because my attention has been called to the subject this evening by a gentleman who is interested in the matter; and I say here, — what I believe to be the opinion of every gentleman who is opposed to the freeing of the ferries, that there is no disposition to trifle with this subject, or to put it off unduly. For one, I very much regret that this hearing cannot go on this evening, yet it seems impossible. I desire to say, for myself, that I hope it is understood that we shall go on next Wednesday evening, and that the hearings may be continued then as rapidly and as thoroughly as possible.

Before I sit down, I desire to make a motion, that the hour of adjournment at these hearings, be at half-past nine o'clock, unless otherwise ordered by the Committee.

Mr. BROOKS. I move to amend by substituting half-past ten o'clock. I think that would not be a late hour, and from halfpast seven to half-past nine would seem to be rather a short time.

Mr. DICKINSON. If you will say ten o'clock, I will accept the amendment.

Mr. BROOKS. I am willing to call it ten o'clock, if that will suit the gentleman. I would like to inquire how many hearings the gentlemen opposed to this measure desire to have.

Mr. DICKINSON. I do not know.

Mr. BARNES. I hope that the time will not be limited. that the gentleman opposite feels that there is a necessity for his stating that the petitioners for this hearing, and the friends of the petitioners in the Council, do not desire delay in this matter; but all the motions that have been made with reference to it, would indicate that the opposite was the fact. I can see no necessity for limiting the time to half-past ten or ten o'clock. If this is a matter of great importance, as has been stated, let us stay here until twelve o'clock, if necessary. These petitioners, of whom we have heard a great deal during the past few weeks, have come in here and presented a claim for a hearing before this body. The matter has been fully understood, and more than a week ago, it was voted by the Council that they should have a hearing, and it was advertised a week ago to-day, I think, or last Saturday, at any rate, that a public hearing should be had here this evening. I do not see that this differs much from other public hearings. It was voted to give the petitioners a hearing, and they should be ready. We are ready; the counsel on the other side is ready, and I am very much surprised that they are not ready; and if it is absolutely necessary, inasmuch as they are not ready, to delay this matter, I hope that the next hearing will be held at as early a moment as possible, and that the time will not be limited.

Mr. DICKINSON. A single word further, in explanation. I made the statement I did a short time ago, in consequence of certain remarks which were made here by one of the gentleman's constituents, and because it has been suggested to me this evening that possibly there might be a purpose on the part of some people to unduly protract this hearing, and take advantage of the delay. Now, sir, for one, I disclaim any such

purpose, and I have not heard any such desire intimated by any person. But we all know how it is in matters of this kind. It is not an unusual thing for counsel not to be ready, and a large part of the time of gentlemen of our profession is spent in getting delays, because the parties are not ready; and we all know that in a matter of this kind, where everybody is concerned, "what is everybody's business is nobody's business." It is not strange, therefore, that the counsel for the petitioners is not ready to-night. It is because nobody has felt the individual responsibility which should be felt by those interested to prepare the counsel, and furnish him with such information as is necessary.

I think this committee will do a generous thing if they allow the matter to go over until next Wednesday, and that seems to be the universal desire. In regard to this question of the adjournment of each meeting, it seems to me necessary to fix some time that counsel may summon, from evening to evening, no more witnesses than they will be able to examine, because gentlemen will not come up here a second time. It is a very difficult matter to get gentlemen to come here, whose testimony may be valuable. I think, therefore, there should be some limit. It seems to me that from half past seven to ten two hours and a half is as much time as we can afford to give each evening, as members of the Committee.

Mr. NOYES. I should hope that the motion would not prevail. I should prefer to stay here all night, and have the matter settled at one hearing, rather than be obliged to come up here a dozen times, and stay a couple of hours each time.

The motion was lost, by a vote of 17 to 30.

Mr. STONE. I move that half-past ten be the hour of adjourn

ment.

Mr. NOYES. I hope that that motion will not pass. It seems to me we should not undertake to fix the time of adjournment. Mr. WINCH. I hope that the motion of the gentleman from

Ward 5 will prevail. It seems to me that half-past ten is as late an hour as we could expect the witnesses who are to be called upon to testify in this case, some of whom will come from a distant part of the city, to remain here. I hope that some time will be fixed, so that the witnesses may know how long they will be required to be present.

Mr. BARNES. I do not understand that we are to call upon witnesses to be here. Certain citizens of Boston have petitioned to be heard. Let them come here and be heard. They ought to bide our time, on both sides.

Mr. DICKINSON demanded the yeas and nays, and they were ordered. The call of the roll resulted as follows: Yeas 22, nays 25.

So the motion was lost.

Mr. MOULTON. I would like to inquire, if it is proper, if there are any gentlemen present who have petitioned for a hearing, and if any, how many.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would call upon the counsel for the petitioners to answer the question.

Mr. TRAIN. I have never seen the names of the petitioners. If I can see them, I will state.

[The petitions were handed to the counsel.]

The CHAIRMAN. I think I do but state the feeling of the committee when I say, that we are disappointed that the petitioners are not ready to proceed this evening. Although I do not wish to be understood that we do not desire to extend to them entire courtesy, yet, from the long discussion which we had here on two evenings, and numerous suggestions which have appeared in the public press, it did seem that the petitioners were ready and very anxious to be heard; and it was hoped, certainly by myself and others who are anxious to have a fair hearing, that some of the petitioners, at least, would be present to-night, and that we should make a beginning of the hearing. If we are not to commence upon the hearing, the Chair thinks it would be as well for the Committee to adjourn.