the dirt all the time you were at work for him to the Suffolk-street territory?

A.

Yes, sir. It was Mr. Souther's teams he had. I had to go by him. He had a man out there to punch the ticket to show that I went there with my load. The next morning I would give to Mr. Souther's foreman his own ticket.

Q. Do you know what time you went to work for Mr. Bonner?

A.-I don't know, sir; I worked a fortnight before he was discharged.

A. On Fourth street, South Boston. I don't know the number; his name is Charles O. Smith.

Adjourned to Tuesday, October 9, 1871.

FIFTH HEARING, OCTOBER 10, 1871.

TESTIMONY OF NEWTON TALBOT.

Q. — You were chairman of the Committee on Fort Hill, or the Committee on Streets, that had charge of the grading of Fort Hill, last year, were you not?

A.

Q.

Yes, sir.

What time did you begin last year to remove Fort Hill? A. — We had several contracts last year, and I think the year before. I think we began the early part of last year to remove the earth for filling the docks. The grading of the Atlantic avenue was under the Committee on Paving, of which I was not a member. But the filling of the docks, under acts of the Legislature, was in the hands of the Committee on Streets.

Q. How were the contracts made by your committee to remove the earth from Fort Hill?

A. Our first contract was for filling the dock near the end of State-street block, a small dock, - which was made with Mr. Hannon, I think, of South Boston. Then we made another con

tract with Mr. Souther to fill Central-Wharf dock. He used a steam excavator for digging. Mr. Hannon moved his by teams; Mr. Souther moved his by railway to the Central-Wharf dock. Near the close of the year we advertised for proposals to fill the docks below Long Wharf, to the north of Long Wharf, under one contract. The bids were opened, and Mr. Hayes's and Mr. Farren's bids for the removal of the earth from Fort Hill, and the filling of these docks were just alike. I don't recollect the price now. We wrote to each of them that another party had bid the same, and asked if they wanted to change their bids at all. That took up considerable time. They notified us that they didn't choose to make any different bid from what they had already made. Then it was proposed to them by the committee for each to take one-half of the contract, and they acceded to this arrangement. I have no knowledge that they bid in unison; probably they might have done so, as each took half of the work to do. This brought us down to near the close of the year. I can't remember what time they began work; it was quite late in the season. Whether any bills for the removal of earth were approved by me that year I am not certain. My impression is that I approved bills for the removal of earth during the month of December.

Q. How many contracts were there existing at one time? Were all three, Hayes's, Souther's and Farren's, running at one time?

A. — I think that Mr. Hannon's, the first one, was completed. I think that Mr. Souther's was completed, but it might not have been;* but I am under the impression that Mr. Souther's dock contract was completed. Then we delayed making the contract to fill up the northerly docks until Mr. Farren had completed the building of the avenue, so that whoever had the contract could nse the avenue as a means of transportation. This carried it late into the fall, because we could not begin to fill until the first of July, for under the law we had to give a reasonable time for the owners to fill up. We gave them notice at the close of the year preceding that we should begin to fill up on the first of July, if they neglected to fill them before that date. At that time Atlantic avenue was not completed, and graded, and we waited until the first of October, probably, before we advertised for bids,

which, as I said, brought it down to very near the close of the year. But I am quite sure Hayes and Farren, if not Souther, were at work before I went out of office, for I went down to see them, but whether any measurement was made during the year and the money paid, I don't know; but I think one month's work was estimated and paid for.

Q.

Were there no measurements made, during your term of office, of Fort Hill?

A. — Oh, yes; the measurements were made on the other two contracts, because we paid eighty per cent. upon the estimated work each month, and at the close we approved the bill of the whole. Q.-Under the contracts was the earth to be taken to any other places than those you have mentioned, those docks?

A. Yes, there was a contract with Mr. Souther beside the one to fill the Central-Wharf dock, and made subsequent to it, by which he was to remove not more than 10,000 squares of the Suffolk-street District.

Q. Was there any contract ever existing during last year, with these contractors, or any other person, by which they might dispose of the earth as they saw fit, not placing it in the docks? No contract.

A.

Q. Was there ever any such contract between the city authorities and these contractors, without reference to that filling, or was it contemplated at any time?

A. Of course the material that they moved to fill the docks was to be measured; and the expense was against the city in moving it, of five or six dollars a square. Undoubtedly there might have been conversation to this effect, that anybody that wanted to carry off dirt might carry it off from Fort Hill if it was not measured. I don't know that I ever stated that to a contractor, or spoke to him in that way.

Q. Did Mr. Whiting have his earth carried away?

A. I believe he did; I don't know whether he got anything for it, or not. There was earth being carried away, I think. I have no positive knowledge. I think there was earth being carried away some time during the year, that was not in the custody of the city, that is, had not been measured by them.

A. - It was on the side of Oliver street, nearly opposite the square. He had one lot nearly opposite the square, and he dug a large hole there, and somebody carried off the dirt.

Q. — Do I understand then that if any one had taken earth from any part of Fort Hill that was not at that time under contract, that had not been measured in order to be carried to the docks, that the city would have made no objection?

A.

So far as I had any authority in the matter I should have made no objection. I should have been glad to have seen it all carried off in a night.

Q. How much earth had been measured during last year?

A. — I had no knowledge. The measurement, by ordinance, belonged to the engineer's department, and it was something I had no right to interfere with, and I didn't interfere with at all. I had no right to assume that their work would not be done properly, and I had no knowledge how they made their measurements. I should not know whether they were right or not. I cautioned the engineer occasionally to be sure and make his outs enough, in regard to the cellars and stones, and a great deal of material that was not fit to put into the docks, and which it was understood the contractor might remove to another place if he saw fit. If he found a brick, he might throw it out, and some stone walls; that is usual in all diggings, I understand. I cautioned Mr. McConnell to be sure, in making his measurements and estimates, that all those outs were given to the advantage of the city. But I have no knowledge that it was done.

Q.- Mr.

- Mr. McConnell was the engineer who was in charge of the work?

A. — Mr. McConnell was on Fort Hill all the time I had anything to do with it.

Q. - Wasn't there a certain locality which, as a general thing, was understood not to be measured, and in case anybody saw fit to go there and take earth from the hill to ballast vessels, they had that privilege?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q.

There was no place that wasn't measured, in order to give them that privilege?

A. I never gave them any privileges.

Q.-State whether you did, as a committee, set aside any such district.

A. — I can't remember now. The contracts were all that they should take earth from such places as the committee might direct before the work was commenced, and we supposed they took the earth from there. We didn't suppose that Mr. McConnell measured the whole hill. When any dirt was taken away, he measured the place from which the earth had gone; it was not necessary to measure the whole hill. It was only necessary to take the part that was already graded, as they removed the earth, and see how much was gone. That is the way I understood the measurement. I don't remember of saying to any contractor that dirt might be removed without any expense to the city. I don't think I ever did that to any contractor. I don't hardly think I had a right to do that. I knew that Mr. Whiting's men were getting earth there, but for what purpose I didn't know, and I never inquired. I don't think that was measured by Mr. McConnell, because it was not in a position to be measured by him to any advantage to the city in doing his work.

say

I might state, now that I have gone through with all the contracts that early in the contract with Mr. Hannon, notice came to the committee that earth was being removed to ballast vessels, and we directed the clerk of committees to notify his bondsmen that we should not pay him for any earth if that was going on, and they immediately went to see him, and notified us that it should be stopped at once. They were very glad to know it. They had furnished Mr. Hannon with feed for carrying on his teams during the winter, and they were very desirous he should do his work faithfully and promptly. The amount of dirt removed was very small, probably not more than five dollars' worth, and at the close in the settlement we made no deduction for that, because we were very sure that after the notice was given it was stopped.

Q.- That was the only case that came to your knowledge where earth was taken away to other places than the docks?

A. Yes, sir; that was in the early winter of 1870. His contract was a small one; it only came to a few thousand dollars. As soon as the notice came to us, we notified his bondsmen that it was going on, and they immediately saw him, and communi