It is possible, my lords, that the enquiry I speak of may lead us to advise his Majesty to dissolve the present parliament; nor have I any doubt of our right to give that advice, if we should think it necessary. His Majesty will then determine whether he will yield to the united petitions of the people of England, or maintain the House of Commons in the exercise of a legislative power, which heretofore abolished the House of Lords, and overturned the monarchy. I willingly acquit the present House of Commons of having actually formed so detestable a design; but they cannot themselves foresee to what excesses they may be carried hereafter; and for my own part, I should be sorry to trust to their future moderation. Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it; and this I know, my lords, that where law ends, tyranny begins! The Lords' Address of Thanks.] The Amendment was then negatived; Address agreed to was as follows: after this, The Marquis of Rockingham moved, that the Lords should be summoned to attend next day, as he had a proposal of great national importance to make. Lord Pomfret said, that he should be extremely glad to hear the Marquis's motion at a proper time; but that he had a previous motion to make, which was, that the House should be adjourned till that day se'nnight. Several remarks were made upon this motion by some lords in the minority. Earl Temple said, that the House well knew for what purpose the ministry wanted an adjournment: it was to settle the disordered state of the administration, which was now shattered in a most miserable manner, and in all likelihood would soon fall to pieces; and particularly to dismiss the virtuous and independent lord who sat on the woolsack, and to supply his place with some obsequious lawyer who would do as he was commanded. Lord Shelburne said nearly the same, and added, that after the dismission of the present worthy chancellor, the seals would go a begging; but he hoped there would not be found in the kingdom a wretch so base and mean spirited, as to accept of them on the conditions on which they must be offered. The House divided on the original motion, 203 for it, 36 against it. "Most gracious Sovereign; The "We, your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords spiritual and temporal, in parliament assembled, return your Majesty our humble thanks, for your most gracious Speech from the throne. "We beg leave to assure your Majesty, that it is with the greatest concern we have understood that the distemper among the Horned Cattle has lately broke out in this kingdom; we desire to express our gratitude for your Majesty's paternal care and attention to the welfare of your people, in the steps which it has pleased your Majesty to take, with the advice of your privy council, to check the instant danger of the spreading of the distemper upon the first notice of its appearance; and to assure your Majesty, that we will immediately enter into the most serious consideration of this very important object, and will exert our utmost endeavours in taking such effectual measures as may secure us against so great a calamity. "We return your Majesty our thanks has been pleased to give us of your fixed for the repeated assurances your Majesty purpose to preserve the peace, maintaining, at the same time, the dignity of your crown, and the interests of your people. We have a dutiful sense of your Majesty's sity of involving your subjects in fresh provident attention to prevent the necesdifficulties after the great burthens to which they so cheerfully submitted, in order to bring the late war to a happy "My Lords; "I thank you for this affectionate and loyal Address: your resolution to enter immediately into the consideration of such measures as may best secure us against the spreading of the distemper among the horned cattle, affords me great satisfaction. "I have strong reliance on your deter conclusion; and we have great satisfaction in finding that the assurances given to your Majesty by the other great powers of Europe, afford reason to believe that, without prejudice either to the honour of your crown, the rights of your people, or the general interests of Europe, it may still be in your Majesty's power to continue to your subjects the farther enjoy-mination to give me every assistance in ments of the blessings of peace. your power, to support my government in America. "We assure your Majesty, that we will take into our most serious consideration the state of your government in America: we beg leave to express our utmost concern that the success of your Majesty's endeavours to bring back your subjects there to a due sense of lawful authority, have not answered your Majesty's expectations. We shall be ready to give every assistance in our power for rendering effectual these your Majesty's gracious intentions, and for discountenancing those unwarrantable measures practised in some of your Majesty's colonies, which appear calculated to destroy the commercial connection between them and the mother country. "We think it our duty to assure your Majesty, that we are thoroughly sensible that the welfare of your people has ever been the object of your wishes, and the rule of all your actions; and that we will endeavour to deserve the favourable opinion which your Majesty is graciously pleased to express of our being governed by the same principles: that we have a perfect reliance on your Majesty's promised support in such measures, as may serve to promote those ends; that as it is peculiarly incumbent upon us, at present, to avoid heats and animosities among ourselves, so we shall endeavour to cultivate that harmony which is so necessary to the common cause, and which alone can render our deliberations respectable and effectual; being fully persuaded that such a conduct, on our part, must greatly contribute to the happiness and prosperity of this country, and to establish a due sense of the very distinguished advantages of our happy constitution, as well as a firm attachment to it, and must justify, both at home and abroad, your Majesty's gracious confidence in the wisdom of your parliament, and in their zeal for the true interests of your people." The King's Answer.] His Majesty returned this Answer: "Your assurances of duty and loyalty towards me, and your resolution to culti vate harmony among yourselves, give me very sincere pleasure." Debate in the Commons on the Address of Thanks*.] The Commons being returned to their House, • From the Gentleman's Magazine. taken from the London Magazine for January The following Abstract of this Debate is 1770: Proceedings of the House of Commons, Sir; you know the King's Speech takes no that when an Address was proposed, in answer notice of the Petitions. You likewise know, to the Speech, a motion was made for the fol lowing Amendment to it, viz. "That the House should assure his Majesty they would proceed to enquire into the causes of the discontents in his Majesty's dominions." I here with send you an Abstract of the Debates upon that was said upon it, for I was not present this motion. I cannot pretend to give you all when it was made; but from what I could learn, not a great deal had been said before! ↑ got in. Lord Clare was then speaking; from what I heard of his speech, he admitted that there were discontents. Mr. Cornwall was the next that spoke, in appearance, very independently, and much is the sentiments, if not quite in the stile, of the great and patriotic members who composed that 1640. He said there were grievances, and glorious and ever memorable parliament of very great ones; that he knew there were great discontents in the county which he lived in and that, in his opinion, a change of men would not satisfy the people, but that there must be something more done. The Attorney General spoke next. His speech tended to shew, that we could not properly take notice of any discontents, there be ing nothing before us to warrant such a sup posal, (this, I thought, was speaking much like a lawyer, but not like a representative), that in the county he lived in, be never heard of any grievances, and did not think there, was Sir George Osborne moved, "That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, to return his Majesty the thanks of this House, for his most gracious Speech from the throne. 'T."To express to his Majesty our serious any body in it, who believed there were any very extraordinary; that, for his own part, he had heard of petitions being in some places unduly obtained, but that he declined, for the present, giving any opinion about their legality, or what might be the consequence of them, seeing so many persons of distinction were concerned in them; and concluded against the motion. I think George Onslow was the next. He said the petitions were no proof of any general discontent; and that in one county, that which he had the honour to represent, he knew the majority of the freeholders were not for the mea-sure; that the principal gentlemen in the county Ls were not concerned in it; that very few of the justices of peace had signed the petition, and very few of the clergy. He was answered by sir Anthony Abdy, who observed, that though he was a friend and well wisher to the gentleman who spoke last, he must say, by far the greatest part of the gentlemen of great property were at the meeting, and signed the petition; that as for himself, he could not attend the meeting, being ill at the time, but he did sign it; that he never would deny himself being an active man in it; that as to the honourable gentleman, and as to the freeholders not knowing what they were about, as Mr. Onslow had insinuated, he would very readily admit they did not, when they chose him for their representative. Col. Onslow, cousin to George, spoke next. What he said is not worth recollection. Next to him was Mr. Thomas de Grey, brother to the Attorney General. He said he had the honour to serve for a great county, (Norfolk) but no petition had been resolved upon by the gentlemen, nor any great grievance complained of. Speaking of the Westminster petitioners, he called them base-born.' This gave offence, and concern, that, notwithstanding every precaution which could be used for preventing the communication of the infectious disorder among the Horned Cattle from foreign parts, that most alarming distemper appears to have again broken out in own reason; were they to shut their eyes and ears? that he looked upon us as the grand inquest of the nation; related his conduct with respect to the Yorkshire petition; that he did not originally move it, but was sent to by a number of gentlemen at the races, and gave an account of the great caution he had used in that matter; however, that he was so far from dreading any thing that the Attorney General had thrown out, that he did avow his having declared his opinion, that the Resolution which adjudged Luttrell duly elected, was illegal, and that he was still of the same opinion; that he did by no means approve of a crown officer throwing out his opinion in terrorem at us: sir A. Abdy had said the same. Those who had signed the petition avowed the act, and dared their opponents to punish them. Rigby spoke next. His aim was, by wit and ridicule, to lessen the weight of the petitions, and with this view, he proceeded to relate what he had heard of the landlord of the inn at Chelmsford, with respect to the Essex petitioners, to shew that there were few or no principal gentlemen among them. Lord John Cavendish spoke next, then Mr. Sheriff Townsend, and Mr. Aubrey all to the same purpose. Colonel Barré rose. He urged the public discontents, and brought several instances of the ministers imprudent conduct, mentioned the matter of the colonies, and particularly shewed the absurd conduct of one of the governors they had sent over (Lord Botetourt.) He insisted on the minister's having occasioned discontents at home, and having sacrificed, as he had too much reason to believe, the honour of the British flag. He desired to know, whether orders had not been issued from some quarter, that we should not insist on the honours due to our flag; and he called upon sir Edward Hawke to say, whether all that was fair had been done. Sir Edward disclaimed knowing of any or Mr. Serjeant Glynn got up, and said, the hon. gentleman had broke through order, and was going to make a motion; but upon Mr.ders to that purpose. De Grey's retracting, and confessing his error, that he was not so correct in his language as the learned serjeant-the motion was waved. De Grey's having asserted there was no grievance complained of in his county, occasioned a great many gentlemen to get up, and give an account of what had passed in their respective counties: amongst those was Sir G. Saville. He attacked the Attorney General, upon what he had objected to the Amendment, viz. Nothing before the House; that he never understood that we could not take tice of any thing that did not come before us way of petition; were they not to use their Lord North made but a poor defence of the ministry, and used some arguments, that, when they came to be examined into, turned very strongly against him. His chief arguments against there being any appearance of discontent were, that the majority of the counties had not petitioned; that, in those which had petitioned, very few gentlemen of great property, very few justices of the peace, and very few cler gymen had signed the petitions. He particularly insisted upon the county of Middlesex. He averred that not one justice of peace had signed. He asserted the same nearly with respect to Westminster. He recited the proceed some parts of the kingdom; and at the same time to declare, that we are truly sensible of his Majesty's paternal care and vigilance for the security of his people, in having given the earliest directions for every measure to be pursued, that might ings of that House in the last session, with regard to the expulsion of Mr. Wilkes; though he entered not into the defence of the incapacitating resolution, to shew, by any authorities in law, its legality, (so what he here said was idle, every body knowing the facts) but avowed his former opinion, insisting on our authority to determine all election matters, and that our determination was final. I think the patriotic Serjeant [Glynn] spoke next. He shewed the necessity of the Amendment; that the nation expected redress; and that for us to refuse any enquiry into those discontents, was to drive the people to despair; that, be the discontents well or ill founded, an enquiry ought to be made, and since they had confessed there were discontents, no reason could be given why the causes of them should not be enquired into. With respect to the justices of the peace, he believed those of Middlesex were not considered in so honourable a light, that if he was speaking of a gentleman of that county, it would not be thought an additional compliment to say of him, that he was in the commission of the peace. All who spoke on this side of the question, were exceeding bold and spirited, and did, as it were, set at defiance the power of administra tion. The military Marquis [of Granby] spoke next. He expressed a kind of sorrow for his past conduct. He said he was dissatisfied with the voice he had given upon a former question; that there were discontents, and he wished the causes of them to be enquired into. General Conway got up next, and I believe the minority thought he was going to make the same declaration, and indeed he set out as if he meant to do so; but he so qualified his expressions, that for some time no person could tell for which side he would declare. He said there were discontents; that they ought to be enquired into, but that he should give his vote against the Amendment, because it was no part of the Speech. Besides, such a general mention of complaints, was to adopt the complaint made against us, and the prayer for our dissolution, than which there could be nothing more absurd. With respect to the Resolution, he had been, and still was of opinion that it was legal, but that he would not set up his opinion for law. Sir Fletcher Norton began with observing upon the question, (viz. alteration) that he could not see how we could alter our judgment; that he looked upon us as a court, as in that respect, whose determination was final, there being no appeal from our decision, they being the dernier resort in election matters; that he be most likely to give an immediate check to the first spreading of the infection; and that we will not fail to take this most important matter into our immediate consideration, and to make such provisions as shall appear best calculated to carry into did not speak this with any view to prejudice the question; but that when it came on, it might be considered, that there was no prece dent of our altering our judgment; that if they argued from analogy, there was nothing like it in the constitution; that the judgments of the upper House were final; that he had thought, and still did, the proceeding legal, though he was ready to be convinced by the opinion of the House, but that, if a reversal of that judgment should be thought necessary, it was his humble opinion, an act would be the most legal and constitutional way of setting the matter right. Mr. Edmund Burke began with reprehending sir Fletcher for giving his private opinion in a matter not now in debate, at the same time not saying one syllable to the question, or sett ing the matter of the petitions right; that it was such an answer, to what had been asserted of a general discontent, to say that the majority of the counties bad not petitioned, as he had never heard. What, is it not a bad govern ment, unless all the counties of England repre sent it as such? Is there no proof of the ma jority of freeholders being discontented, unless a majority of the principal gentlemen in the peti tioning counties, unless the justices of the peace sign the petition? Are the farmers of no ac count? The gentlemen have many ways of securing to themselves an interest in the go vernment; pensions, places, being admitted to the levees of great men; but what have the small freeholders? They have no weight, no share in the government, if they are to be excluded the privilege of electing representatives, and complaining of grievances in the way they have done. He here made a most pathetic allusion to the parable of the poor man's lamb, and said this was the freeholders' lamb. But what an argument is it to say that the petitions do not express any general discontent, because the principal gentlemen do not sign them? The gentlemen, it is well known, are much influenced; but the freeholders are above all menace, all fear, all influence. The justices of peace do not sign? The justices of peace are under the immediate appointment of the crown; and if it were that they did not sign, should hope it would be one of the last argu ments against the petitions, if ever it can be any. Good God! Sir, is there no discontent, if all the counties do not petition? What would they have that government to be, where every member of the community is to com plain against it? I never heard of such an ar gument as this before, and hope it will now be for the last time. There never was any thing like present complaint; not one opposite pell tion or address from the time the first petition [674 effectual and complete execution his Ma- | ful Commons have too just a sense of the jesty's salutary intentions; and thereby, blessings of peace, and feel, with his Maas far as by human means can be accom-jesty, too tender a concern for the case of plished, to guard against the danger of so their fellow subjects, not to rejoice at the great a calamity becoming general. prospect which the assurances given by "To assure his Majesty, that his faith- the other great powers of Europe afford was presented. Look into the history of former times, into Charles the second's times, into other periods, when petitions were presented. Were there not petitions against petitions? The Whigs petitioning one thing, the Tories against it; two parties always opposing one another; but there never was any thing like the present. Another thing they urge against Szepetitions is, that where the Middlesex petition stated many grievances, the other counties reejected them as groundless. What! because they do not mention them, but confine themselves to the dragon, the huge grievance, is that an evidence that they think they do not exist? I was one of those who advised the not mentioning them, but confining the complaints to the violation of election; not that I thought, he (meaning lord North) would represent, that they did not exist, for there are a great many other very great grievances, but it alone was sufeficient to urge a dissolution; I say, Sir, it alone twas sufficient; and we ought all, Sir, to fall down and prostrate ourselves at his Majesty's feet, and implore a dissolution, for what we have been guilty of. It is our bounden duty to do it. Some of the best, the only patriotic members in the Long Parliament of Charles 2, the Pension Parliament, as it was called, went as far as this. I am not at liberty now to go into an argument upon the incapacitating measure. I will only say, that all the sophistry of the greatest lawyers has not been able to confince one man of its legality, nor even to raise a doubt about it. He here said something as to the argument that had been alleged of the clergy not having signed, observing, that church preferments did always most powerfully operate with them. Notwithstanding, he said he knew some that had signed; and as to what had been said, that the freeholders did not know, did not understand, what hey were about; he knew the epithets base born,' and 'scum of the earth,' had been applied to them, and now it was contended, the opinion of the gentlemen was only to be regarded. But why are not freeholders gentlemen? What is there that makes the freeholders base born, if the gentlemen, as they are called, are not? I know not, our constitution knows not. A freeholder is as good a gentleman as any in the kingdom. I am ashamed of the arguments that have been used, to shew that there are no discontents, or just grounds of complaint. They are such, that if they were good, no discontent, no ground of complaint could ever exist. But the administration themselves do not agree. For while some in high offices contend there are none, others in as high offices, frankly admit there are, and that an [VOL. XVI.] enquiry ought to be made into the causes of them. I must detain you, Sir, with a few observations upon the minister's speech. He has not thought fit to say a syllable of those discontents. He proceeded now to state the affairs of America. He observed, that they had brought the affairs of that country into such a situation, into such difficulty, that wisdom itself could not devise the means of setting them right, that they had reversed every principle of prudent conduct. In this part he particularly exerted himself. It is impossible to recollect even the heads of all the variety of proofs he brought to establish what he had advanced, and those I do recollect lose all their beauty and energy, by the bad representation here given of them. Every thing he asserted he demonstrated by most irrefragable proofs. Mr. Burke said, that the ministry having plunged the affairs of America into the greatest difficulties, they should now come to ask parliament to get them out; that they found America in the most perfect peace and harmony; that they were the first and only cause of destroying that harmony; that they laid a duty or tax upon America, not for the purpose of raising a revenue, for they declared at the time, they knew it would not defray the officers charges (a tax, with respect to us, confessedly the most impolitic, being a duty on our own exports) but with the avowed design of asserting the right to raise a revenue; that he would not mention the Stamp Act, but what sort of an act in the name of wonder was this! They begin with treating America harshly; they afterwards speak of her as disaffected; they at last drive her to despair. They withhold all appearances of favour; no dawn of hope is afforded her. They send over a military force; they recal that force, and send over a military force again. They menace and use compulsion first, and then use softening measures. They endeavour to win the Americans into a compliance, after having failed in compelling them. Was there ever any conduct like this! any thing so absurd! to menace and use compulsive measures first, and this failing to ask, to intreat, to beg a compliance. What consistency was this! They reverse the rule of all wise and prudent governments, which try gentle measures first, and if those fail, have recourse to compulsive ones. What opinion must the Americans have of us? Must they not think we are a set of the most inconsistent, contemptible wretches upon earth? I do not mean to justify all they have done: however, in most things they have reasoned better on the constitution than us. The minister's speech [2X] |