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by a permanent system of fortification, ac- of 802,ocol. be granted for the repairs of companied by the ftri&eft attention to co- the navy for the year 1786. nomy, and the works to be manned by the Capt. Macbride rose to object to that malíeft number of men possible, was a mea- part which mentioned the sums necessary lure intimately connected with the national for the repairing of old ships. He observed, defence, and absolutely necessary to give vic that in the lift of those which required rea gour and effect to the operations of our pair, the greater number consisted of an iaHects, and to give security to this kingdom ferior rate. The policy of our enemies had in any war wherein we may hercafter be en- been changed, and demanded on our parts gaged."

à consequent alteration. Whilst they proThe second was, “ That it is therefore cceded to build nothing but leventy-fours, their opinion, that an annual supply should we were absurdly expending that money be granted towards carrying into effect the on the repair of small craft, which should crections which were deemed necessary by be devoted to exertions correspondent with the firtt resolucion.

theirs. In the course of the last war we had Mr. Bastard maved an amendment to the felt the disadvantage of this inferiority. Our resolution proposed by Mr. Pitt, “ That a ships collectively or individually were gencfyftem of fortification, on grounds so exten- rally inferior to those of the enemy, and we five as that proposed by the Board of Enqui- had committed an injustice to the valour of ry, seems to this House a measure totally our officers and seamen, by placing them in inexpedient."

vessels of a strength so inferior, that their best Sir William Lemon seconded the motion atchievement was to make it, if possible, a for the amendment.

drawn battle. He instanced the case of the Mr. Walw yn, Gen. Burgoyne, Col. Barré, Ilis of fifty guns, and of several others ia and Capt. Macbride, were againit the mea- the course of the lato war, where the effects lure; Lord Hood, the Hon. James Luttrell, of this in!eriority were apparent ; and gave Sir Charles Middleton, and Capt. Berkeley, it as his opinion, that it would be infinitely maintained the propriety of the system. more eligible to add a few thousands to the

Mr. Sheridan, Lord Mulgrave, Mr. Fox, fums now required, to build vessels of efMr. Dundas, Lord North, Mr. Windham, feative force, which would keep pace with Mr. Norton, Mr. Phipps, Mr. Martin, Mr. the exertions that had been made in the 'Wilberforce, Sir R. Smith, and Mr. Pitt, French marine, and, in the cafe of a future severally {poke ; and, at seven o'clock in war, exempt our seamen from the hazards the morning, the House divided upon the they had experienced in the last. motion for it, 169; against it, 169. Cape, Luttrell agreed that it would be of

The decision now refted with the Speaker, great advantage to the public, if our ships of who gave his casting voice in favour of Mr. 64 guns were converted into thips of 74; Baltard's amendment, so that the Minister and our frigates built upon a larger scale ; Init his projected plan of fortifications by a but he feared that to condemn at once all majority of one.

our ships of the former rate, and replace The original motion was then put, and them with larger ones, would be very heavy zegatived without a division.

upon the finances of the country: Mr. Pitt, in order to prevent Mr. Bastard Capt. Macbride faid, he did not at all from infifting upon the intertion of the mean to recommend to the Admiralty, that words contained in his amendment, said, all the sixty-fours should be broke up; he That the House having declared againit the only meant, that instead of repairing such fyftem of fortifications, their opinion should of them as were very old, the money that be a law to him, and he would not revive might be wanted for that purpose should what they had condemned. This satisfied be laid out in building new inips of a supe Mr. Baltard, who declined pressing his rior rate. As he saw the Compiroller of ihe amendment further, contenting himfelf with navy, Sir Charles Middleton, entering the having triumphed over the fortifications. House, he said he would take the liberty of Alter Come conversation on the subject, the mentioning a subject on which he had res House adjourned till Wednefday,

frained to touch in the absence of that genMARCH 1.

tleman; he meant the coppering of thips. la a Committee of Supply came to the This was a practice, he said, of the mont following resolution : That 622,326). be important, not to say the most alarming granted for the Ordinary of the Navy, in nature in its consequences; for perhaps from cluding hall-pay to sea and marine offi- the practice of coppering having so generally

obcained, it might be made a question wheThe blouse resolved it felf into a Commic ther we have now a navy or not; the falter of Supply, in which the estimates for tenings of the thips were so corroded by ibe cxuaordinaries of the navy were rcad. copper, that the lives of our gallant leamen

Ms. Brett, one of the Lords of the Ad. would be exposed to great danger, should miralty, immediately moved, That the fun they be feat to sea in them. He had no




objection to copper as a mere sheathing, which had passed yesterday on the fubjeklo which might be put on in one day's time, the Naval Eftimales. He was of opinio and taken off whenever the ship was laid that the present manner of examining thip up : but experience would compel him to was exceedingly faulty. He went into a los condemn the practice of keping ships in description of what is technically calle ordinary in copper during the peace; for tasting a vessel, when after piercing her i though a vessel might appear in fill water different parts for inspection, the found part to be in good condition, yet when a rolling were marked with an S. and those whict {ca Mould beat off the copper, the timbers were decayed were branded with an R mighư be rotten, and the fastenings corroded. From the mode in which this was performs For bis pari, he was of opinion, that an in- ed at present, the groflest mistakes had se quiry ought to be instituted into this very peatedly occurred, and in some inftantes, important bufiness; and if no one in office which he recited, had been deteaed, where would undertake to move for it, he would. orders for breaking up the thips had actually

Sir Charles Middleton said, had the Hon. been issued. He concluded with his AtrongMember called at the Navy Board, he would eft affent to the opinions which had yelter have received every information he could day fallen from an Hon. Gentleman, (Captı have wished for ; but he must ealily con- Macbride) and recommended the circumceive that such a subject as the actual state of fitonces to the attention of those to whole the Navy, was rather too delicate to be dil department it more particularly belonged. culled in a public asíeinbly.

Mr. Brelt vindicated the Eftimates and Capt. Leveson Gower paid many compli, the inquiries into the tale of thips, as being menis to Capt. Macbride, but laid, at ihe done with all pollible circumspection ; and same time, he was surprized the Hon. Gen. proceeded to justify the use of 64 gun fhips, tieman was such an enemy to hips of 64 which that Hon. Gentleman had yetterday guns; for though an offer had been made to reprobated, by saying that our harboars him during the last war, of à fhip of 74 were not in general deep enough for the re guns, he had refused it, in order to keep a ception of vesiels of a superior rate. 64.

Capt. Macbride continued to support the Capt

. Macbride replicd, that his reason for opinions he had given. It was by no means the refusal was this: A set of very gallant his with that good ships of that foze should fellows had entered with him as voluntaris ; be broken up; but that, in the building of he wished to have them turned over with new ones, the system should be laid afide of bim to a large ship that had been offered to building veitels of an inferior rate to that of him; but as he could not procure that fa- our enemies. vour, and would not, on the other hand, Mr. Hussey paid many compliments to : leave his brave crew behind him, he chofe Capt. Macbride, and wilbed him to proleto remain with his people, and retain the cute the inquiry which he had so happily Bienfaisant.

begun. Capt. Luttrell said he concurred with the

The Report was then received. Hon. Member who spoke lait in every thing The lloule next resolved itself into a Com. he had said about the coppering of ships. mittce, Mr. M. A. Taylor, in the chair, to

Capi. Berkeley agreed in general with receive the Report of the Select Committee Capt. Macbride, in what he had said about appointed to inquire into the fate of the 64 and 74 guns ; but he observed, that in British Fisheries. fixing the rate of our ships, due attention Mr. Beaufoy arose to state the outlines of ought to be paid to the depth of water in our the plan which the Committee bad chofen ports, and the other places where their fer- to adopi, as the most eligible for giving effect vice might be wanted. If thips of 74 guns to the wishes of the nation on this subject. could be fe built as to draw no more water The firlt principle of the plan which be had than those of 64, then inded the former to propose, and which the House food would be every way more serviceable. pledged in some manner to substantiate,

Mr. Hopkins, Mr. Drake, and Mr. Holdi. went to transfer the turbot fi fery from the worth said a few words; and the question Dutch to our own countrymen, who would was put on the supply, and carried without be willing to engage in it. opposition.

reason could be alledged why the Dutch, The House was then resumed, and Mr. who were always our rivals, and frequently Drake, jun. moved, That there be laid be- our enemies, should be employed in a ferfore the House an account of the produce vice which our countrymen were fully as arising from the sale of condemned thips, con petent to executc. This end, he thought, Stores, &c. for some years back.- Tlie moliun would be belt accomptithed by taxing the was carried, and the House odjourned. foreigners engaged in this business, or laying MARCH 2.

such a duty on the importation of their full Sir J. Jarvis, when the Report of the into our markets, as would nearly amount Committee of Supply was brought up, re- to a prohibition. If they were more inveried to some parts of the conversation duftrious than our filhers, that indultry


No good


Retail Shops.


should be taxed, until, by encouragement, solely drawn from its diabolical nature, as bethe exertions of our people were confirmed ing one of the molt cruel, unjust, and opinto habit. For want of such encouragement prefsive impofts that ever was dev:sed. the Greenland fishery, which formerly em- Mr. Amyatt, Aldermen Newnham and plo; ed 150 fail, was now dwindled into Hammett, Mr. Drake, Mr. Stanhope, Sir 60. For this purpose bounties were ab- Joseph Mawbey, Mr. Fox, Sir Gregory Page, folutely necessary to encourage our fishers, and Mr. Francis reprobated the tax' in the and to bring the conteft between the two Itrongest terms,' as partial and oppressive. nations to a fairer ground of cquality.

Sir Edward Aftley laid he law nothing so Mr. Beaufoy then proceeded to state a reprchensible in the tax as gentlemen thought number of resolutions, enforcing the minu- proper io attribute to it. tix of this plan; but before they were agreed Mr. Pitt role and remarked, that the to, a conversation took place of a very de question before the Houle was in itself ex. fultory nature, and which it is impollible for tremely important, yet its merits lay within us atrialy to report.

a very narrow circle. He had attended, and Mr. Rolle was afraid it might interfere he hoped with impartiality, to every arguwith the fisheries in other parts of the king

ment ihat had been used ; and were he con

vinced that the complaints were just which Lord Graham was for giving the scheme had been so loudly reverberated, he would as much encouragement as possible.

be the first to move for its repeal ; but the After which the Resolutions passed the present situation of our finances would not Committee.

perinit him to give up any source of revenue The House then resolved itself into a Com- on trivial grounds, or unfold complaints ; mittce, Mr. M. A. Taylor in the chair, to and he still hoped he should be able to con. teke into consideration the different Petitions vince the House that the tax neither in its which had been presented against the Tax on principle or operation was unjuit.

Whilst he could not prevail on himselí toSir Waikin Lewes arose in pursuance of tally to abandon the tax, he felt the claims of the notice he had formerly given, to move humanity in a correspondent degree with the for a repcal of this tax. It was a duty, he Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken, (Mr. fald, to his constituents, which he was proud Francis) and it should certainly be a clause in to perform. The papers he observed on the the modification of the Act, that those who table, which stated the actual produce of the were exempted from parith rates, should be tax, exhibited an amount far short of what also excused the payment of this tax. The bad been originally calculated. As an ex

evidence at the bar, had convinced him that periment, it had therefore failed; and when some modification was necessary; but that in addition to this it was confidered how evidence was divided into two parts, each much discontent and how much diffress had of which was with him attended with difbeen occasioned by its decided partiality ferent effects. The first part tended to prove and oppression, he hoped that the Right that the tax was a perfonai tax, and could Hon. Gentleman who had introduced it not be levied on the consumer; and the leinto the House, would not at present enter. cond, that it was particularly grievous on a tain any strong objections to its repeal. cerrain class of shopkeepers. With respect

Mr. Alderman Sawbridge seconded the to the first, he was by no means convinced motion, and added, thai as the evidence of its impossibility. Very few had paid it ; which had been given on a former day at the and from the little experience that had been bar of the House, tended fully and incontesti- had, it would be idle to say, that to raise it bly to demonstrate the injustice and impolicy on the consumer was impracticable. of the tax, it was his with that it should now At last the House divided, when there

appeared for a repeal of the lax, The Chairman gave his opinion, that the Ayes

96 reading the evidence in the lame Committee Noes in which it had been given, was perfectly in

Majority against the repeal 77 The evidence was then read, and took up Adjourned. about an hour in the repetition.

Mr. Sawbridge then observed, that when Mr. Burke resumed this day the proceedthe Minilter had first introduced this cax, he ings preparatory to an impeachment of Mr. had fupported it by the allegation that it Hattings : He had a great many mo:ions to would fall entirely on the coplumer. This make for papers, which were severally put; idea experience had thewn to be totally un- and upon each the lioule debated in a very leunded; he hoped therefore that the Right deluitory manner. Hon. Gentleman would yield to the wilhes Mr. Dundas opposed the motion. He of the nation, by giving up the tax.


faid, that lo tar was there from being an present, he said, was not with him a question apprarance of war in India, that on the oth of pariy; his objections to the tax were of November, the date of ihe lait dispaichis,


be read.




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all was profound peace throughout India. tee, the Marquis of Graham in the chair, on Whatever might have been the conduct of the petitions againt the Shop-tax, when Mr. Hastings, whether censurable or other- Mr. Pilt moved some resolutions for the wisc, prior to that peace, he was ready to reduction of the Shop-tax, in a proportionate declare, that in diffolving the most formi- degree of one third class, from houses of sl. dable contederacy that ever was formed in rent, to those of 301. India, and putting an end to a war that Alderman Le Mcfurier wished that some threatened us with nothing less than a total time might be given to know whether the expulforn from that country, Mr. Hastings Shopkeepers could in any degree be satisfied had done an act which challenged the thanks with the diminution now proposed. For his and gratitude of Great-Britain.

part, he apprehended thet it would be in no Mr. F. Montague faid, that if reasons of degree satisfactory, because the perions who State were thus brought in bar of an im- found themselves molt affected by this im. peachment, every culprit might be screened position were the Snopkeepers of this metrofrom jutlice ; and it would be impossible to polis, who certainly would find no alteration bring any inan to trial who might stand in the proposal of this day.--Among his well with Gurrrmchi.

conftituenis in the borough of Southwark, as Mr. Fix observed, ihat in the case of the "weli as the other Shopkcepers either in Lon. Rana of Gohidthere was prima facicevidence don or Weftininftar, there were very few inthat an ally had been abandoned ; and there- deed, even of the poorest rank, whose rent fore he would not believe there was a serious did not exceed 301. a year, while the mott intention in the Ministerio withhold papers, opulent Shopkeepers in the country scarcely when there was, upon the very face of that paid a rent amoun:ing !o thai sum ; and it proceeding, luch a presumption of guilt. was within the knowledge of every one who

The Chancellor of the Exchequer bore ever attended to the fubjiit, that there were his teitimony to the transcendent merit of several Shopkeepers in the metropolis paying Mr. liuitings, in diffolving the confeceracy rents of more than 1001, who were in more o the four greatest powers in India against distress, and greater objects of compassion the Bririh interest, and preícrving our ter- than those in the country, who paid no inore ritories in that part of the world, by a

than 5l. a year. peace with the Mahrattas, which he conceived to be a moft brilliant atchieveinent.

After this the following resolutions passed: It had been performed by great exertion of Resolved, “ That all the dutics charged great abilities, that marked the ita eiman, by an act, made in the last Sellion of Parand not by perfidy to our allies; he had liament, intituled, " Au act for granting to detached those powers from each other, by his Majesty certain duties op retail shops fowing jealoulies between them ; and thus (except the duties charged upon any house, he becaine the saviour of India. But if the the annual rent whereof shall be 301. or upSteps he took to effect that great work were wards) do ceale, determine, and be no lonmade public: if the most ficret negociations ger paid or payable." were laid open, by which the infidelities of Relolved, " That in lieu and instead of the different powers to each other would be the duties charged upon luch hou'es, there discovered, and placed in the face of day, shall be railed the following rates, viz. we were not to expect that any power would “ For and upon every house or other exi't treat with us again. He would there building, any part whereot shall be used as ic!e oppole the inoljon as it then Hood: bit a !hop, for the purpofe of felling by retail as the case of the Rana of Gohid might any goods, wares, or merchandize, of the Itand upon ditierent grounds, he would not yeariv rent or value of 51. and under 10l. object to the production of such papers as ibere shall be paid the annual fum of four. m'ght relate to him.

pence in the pound of such rert. Die bloulc then divided on Mr. Burke's " For and upon every fuch house, &c. ruon, when there appeared for 11 44- of the yearly rent or value of 10l, and un. apaut it 87 - Mojority 43.

der 15l. there thall be paid the annual fum Mr. Burkethen made some other motions of eightpence in the pound of luch rent. relative to papers. The oriental naines in * For anal upon ciery fach house, &c. of the motions occasioning fome laughter, the yearly reni or vlue of ugl. and under Air. Burke remarked, that thole naines 201. there shall be paid the annual sum of might strike people in this country as being one fuering in the pound of such ren“. hurth ; they were not, bowever, in all like- * For and upon every tuch houfo, &c. of Jihood more oliendive to our cars, than our the ya arly rent or value of 201. and under names, ini't be to theirs; and he did not 25. there shall be pains the annual sum of know, wh:ti:er in the ballre of things, it ane foutting and threefence in the pound of Henry Dardas was a lís (onorous

luch rent. Rogonaut Row. - Adjourned.

- And for and upon every such houle, MARCH 6.

&c. of the yearly sent or value of gl. aud The House resolusi itelf into a Commis. under zo!. there shall be paid the enrral

dnic than

Tum of one failling and ninepence in the pound preceding wars, except the two lat. He of such rcat."

begged that Ministers would recollect, that Capt. Luttrell rose to state the estimates of at present the people of this country had no the Ordnance. Those he made out at con- enemies but the cwo per cents. the three per Isderably less than last year; the ordina- cents. the five per cends, and the long anries being lower by 90,000l. and the extra- nuities; and, it was the business of the ordinaries by 50,003). The Ordnance also House to provide against these. was without debt, and had no extra charges. Mr. Sawbridge had heard the noble Duke The plans and operations, however, in praised for his æconomy, and his love of whicb' the Board was engaged-were likely liberty, He had once thought well of him, to exceed these estimates hereafter. Capt.. but had now changed his opinion, and he Luttrell ftated the expence of foreign fer- was in poffeffi in of facts which he thouglio vice, but called the attention of the House rendered him culpable in both these respets. in particular to the works going forward at He read a long series of charges again it him Fort Monckton and those at Portsmouth. from a newspaper, which he said he could He then moved, that the sum of 296,000l. fubftantiate. And he added, that his be granted to his Majesty for the estimate of Grace had openly, by the candidates own the Ordoance.

confession from the hustings, violated the Mr. Taylor wished to know whether any freedom of election. furtber fortifications were to be carried on Mr. Stecle faid, the Hon. Gentleman's at Portsmouth.

dilike of the Duke, as he had heard, arose The Chancellor of the Exchequer stated, from the noble Duke's disregarding a requelt that the House had already decided that of the Alderman's, who had written to him question; but he begged to call their atten. on a particular subject, but to which applition to this particular, how far the House cation no answer was returned. was pledged by that vote to complete the Mr. Sawbridge said he had made 10 old, by an abandonment of the new system. charges but what he could prove-lle dared This hé confessed himself not perfectly satis. the Hon. Gentleman to prove his. He profied in, and he referred it therefore to the tefted he never had the honour of writing to decifion of the Horise.

the noble Duke in his life. Mr. Holdsworth Itated great excesses ari- After fome further conversation, the mofing from an increase of the corps of Engi- tion was put and palied. neers, and the corps of the Royal Artillery. A tedious debate then ensued on Mr.

Sir Grey Cooper said, the fifty thousand Hastings's delirquency, and the propriety of pounds which lay in the Treasury, unap. granting fome papers moved tor by Mr. propriated, would come with more pro- Burke. After much speechifying and expriety under discussion in the Committee of planation on both sides. the question relative Ways and Means.

to the papers was at last pu, and the House Mr. Fox contended that the House had no divided, when there appeared, right to share the responsibility connected Ayes

34 with the executive power of the State.


188 Captain Macbride vindicated the conduct of the sea-officers in the opinion they had

Majority 154 given on the subject of the fortifications. Mr. Burke then proceed. d to put his other

Sir H. Harbord did not think the Ord- motions for papers, which occafioned some nance expenditure conducted with economy. further debate, after which the Houle ad

Mr. Hammet said a variety of handsome journed. things of the noble Duke at the head of the

MARCH 7. Ordnance.

Agreed to the report of the Resolution of Captain Luttrell also entered at large into yesterday on the Supply, a vindication of the noble Duke. He re- That 287,0961. be granted for defraying probated the freedom that had been used the expence of the Office of Ordnance for with his Grace, and pointed so much of his land service. animadversions to Capt. Macbride, that Mr. M. A. Taylor, pursuant to notice, every one felt the allulion. He cautioned introduced his motion for the purpose of exthe Hon. Gentleman against dealing in per- tending the operation of an Ac pafled last fonalities, and using a langraye in which Seffion, respecting the Courts of Confcience every chimney-sweeper would excel hip. in the city of London, the borough of South

Capt. Macbride appealed to the House wark, and Westminster. He had received that the Hon. Gentleman combated a man many solicitations to this eficet from several of ttraw, as what he had said did not apply principal towns, particularly Bristol : it was to a fingle word which had falleo from him not his wish, at present, to enter into a dein the conversation alluded to.

tail of those grievances, as they were nume. Mr. Dempiter complained of such enor- rous, and in a high degree inhuman, indomous estimates under a peace establishment. much that for a rifling debi a person might They exceeded the estimates during all the lay in prison for lie; that ibe limits no



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