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Mr. ROGERS. I find it difficult to get men competent to perform this technical statistical work at $3,000.

The CHAIRMAN. You have them now?

Mr. ROGERS. No, sir; they are leaving the bureau.

The CHAIRMAN. Where are they going?

Mr. ROGERS. I lost one statistician who was in the Division of Manufactures that I had employed at $3,000. He went to the Tariff Board at $4,500.

The CHAIRMAN. We will cure that, I think.

Secretary REDFIELD. I think you should.

Mr. ROGERS. We lost one at $2,000, who was in the Manufactures Division. He went to the Emergency Fleet Corporation, at $4,000; just double the compensation. I had one in my Accounting Division at $1,800. He went to the Council of National Defense, at $2,500. The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary is a member of the council.

Secretary REDFIELD. You can charge me up with one-sixth of it. I have made more than one-sixth of a kick, but it did not do any good.

Mr. ROGERS. To go further, since I have had the authority to do so, I have refused a great many of my best men to go to these new boards and other departments at an increased salary.

Secretary REDFIELD. And I have approved it.

Mr. ROGERS. The Secretary has stood by my action, but that course, I am free to say, makes discontent in the bureau and disorganization. They know that they can get twice as much compensation, and when they are not permitted to leave they do not continue to be the best employees.

Secretary REDFIELD. Mr. Chairman, I think I might tell you of one case which will show you how this works in the different bureaus. A man by the name of Ellsworth was taken from the Director of the Census by the Council of National Defense. He is one of the very men that I spoke of early in the day. They are trying to get him away from that job to another service at $3,600. You paid him what, Mr. Rogers?

Mr. ROGERS. $1,800.

Secretary REDFIELD. In three or four months he has left one place for an advance in another position and now goes to another place for another advance.

The CHAIRMAN. You should stop that.

Secretary REDFIELD. We do not do it. If you find it being done by any one of my men, then you can put it up to me.

The CHAIRMAN. The whole Government service will be demoralized during this emergency.

Mr. ROGERS. Let me say, Mr. Chairman, that if we have the power to do it we stop it, but you have very great discontent while the salaries are so unequal.

Secretary REDFIELD. The weakness lies in this: The giving to independent establishments, like commissions, lump-sum appropriations with no statutory requirements and in calling upon the regular departments to meet certain statutory requirements. They are free to move and we are held helpless. They can lawfully do it and we can not lawfully prevent it. That is where the weakness lies.


Mr. ROGERS. When a good, faithful, loyal man comes to the director of a bureau and asks for a promotion and you can not give it to him, and he says in reply, "I would rather work with you and for you than for anybody I know of, yet I can get twice as much by accepting this position. Will you permit me to go?" then it is a sense of justice

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). There might be times under normal conditions when, because opportunities exist in once branch of the service, it is advisable to permit a man to be transferred in order that he may have the promotion, but in an emergency like this to have every branch of the Government service taking men regardless of the effect it has on some other branch of the service is not right. Mr. ROGERS. It is very wrong.

Secretary REDFIELD. You are entirely right.

The CHAIRMAN. If there were a provision which prevented employment in another department of the service without the written consent of the head of the department in which the employee is engaged, Would that help?

Secretary REDFIELD. Yes; that would help. It would not cure it, but it would help.

The CHAIRMAN. We could absolutely prohibit it, and yet there might be some instances in which it should be permitted.

Secretary REDFIELD. That is the danger.

We are

Mr. ROGERS. In this case that does not remove my request. now getting work of a high character to do. It comes from the War Department, the Tariff Commission, the Council of National Defense, the Treasury Department, the Agriculture Department, and elsewhere. Secretary REDFIELD. For example, the whole plan of registration for the draft was original with Mr. Rogers's service, was it not, Mr. Rogers?

Mr. ROGERS. Yes, sir.

Secretary REDFIELD. It was not done by the War Department, but by Mr. Rogers's bureau.

Mr. ROGERS. The Secretary has spoken of the draft. We projected the estimate of population, we estimated the proposed registration in our office and the plan of holding the registration.

Secretary REDFIELD. The whole method?

Mr. ROGERS. The whole method of registering. The distribution that you hear so much about is another matter.

Secretary REDFIELD. We had nothing to do with that.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, you ask that these appointments be made by the Secretary of Commerce upon the recommendation of the Director of the Census?

Mr. JOHANNES. That makes them civil-service employees.

The CHAIRMAN. Then this is not necessary, is it?

Mr. JOHANNES. If you do not put in there "to be appointed by the Secretary of Commerce," the Attorney General has decided that they will have to be presidential appointees. We had that up several Fears ago, you will remember, in connection with the fur-seal wardens. This is necessary to make them civil-service employees.


The CHAIRMAN. Then you ask that the director be authorized, upon the direction and approval of the Secretary of Commerce, to suspend any current work and to devote the force employed for any waremergency work.

Mr. ROGERS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Why is that?

Mr. ROGERS. Well, we have certain current work which would include, say, marriage and divorce

The CH MAN (interposing). The object of this is that if you are called upon to make some calculations growing out of this war situation,u may be permitted to utilize the force in your office and if necessary to divert them from the work for which they have been specifically provided?

Mr. ROGERS. Yes, sir. Will you allow me to say just one sentence about this increase I have asked for of $20,000 for the employment of seven men?

The CHAIRMAN. Eight men.

Mr. ROGERS. Yes. If the work that is assigned to me to do or which I am called upon to do does not require the services of eight men, I want only the few that are necessary to do it. It might not be more than two or three or four at a time, but whatever number I desire to employ and put on this work, not exceeding the number I have suggested, I would like to have.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any other items, Mr. Secretary.

Secretary REDFIELD. Mr. Chairman, an estimate has been sent in to the President for approval, of which I will leave a copy, which will speak for itself. We will transmit with the estimate for your record a letter to the President of July 19 and I will hand you as the argument in the case a pamphlet, of which I will furnish a number of copies, on the matter of the use of the internal waterways.


The CHAIRMAN (reading):

(See p. 703.)

For promoting the development and use of the internal waterways of the United States in the transportation of freight, for studying the needs of water transportation as regards terminals, railway connection, and vessels, for investigating the existing relations between the railway system and water transportation and the attitude of shippers toward the use of waerways, including personal services in Washington, District of Columbia, and elsewhere, purchase of reports and contingencies of all kinds, $37,500.

Is this authorized by any statute, Mr. Secretary?

Secretary REDFIELD. Not further than under the general organic law of the department and under the law creating the Council of National Defense, for this is to be done in cooperation with the committee to promote the use of inland waterways of the Council of Natinal Defense, of which the Chief of Engineers of the United States Army is the chairman. The whole matter is fully explained in this pamphlet. It is a matter of somewhat serious and urgent importance, and I should be very glad to throw any light upon it

I can.

TUESDAY, JULY 20, 1917.





The CHAIRMAN. The first item is, "for two additional watchmen at the rate of $720 each per annum during the fiscal year 1918, $1,440."

Mr. WATSON. The legislative bill for 1918 carries five watchmen for the Department of Labor, and this increase of two would permit us to have two men on each shift throughout the day for each of the three shifts, thus giving a relief man to provide for sickness and enforced absence.

The CHAIRMAN. You have moved into the new building now?
Mr. WATSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you require more men there than in the other building?

Mr. WATSON. We never had adequate supervision in the watch force in the other building. For instance, take the case of the night shift when we have money in the building. One watchman can not handle the situation, for the reason that he has got to make his rounds, and at the same time exercise supervision over the telephone and the receipt of telegrams at the main entrance. He has got to go all the way up to the ninth story, and unless there are two men on the shift there is nobody to look after the entrance and departure of persons from the building. It is absolutely essential to have an additional man at night, and that condition is also true of the day shift.

The CHAIRMAN. How is it, when you asked for only five watchmen and got them, that you now have to have two additional ones? We can not consider this at this time.

Mr. WATSON. One of the reasons manifestly is the emergency that has resulted from the war. We require closer supervision than we did in time of peace. We feel more or less uneasy about the money in the building. We applied to the superintendent of police for assistance, having been led to believe that we might expect some help from them; but we were told that it was up to us to provide for the supervision of the building. Of course, in some of the departments, the situation is met by detailing certain employees for military duty; but the only supervision we have in our building is that provided by our own watch force.


The CHAIRMAN. For commissioners of conciliation your appropriation was $75,000, and you are asking for $150,000.


Secretary WILSON. Mr. Chairman, we found last year that the $75,000 was not ample for the work we have performed, and as a result of that we had to allow a great many labor disputes that should have been cared for to go uncared for during the month of June. We had to do that because we did not have the financial means to send commissioners of conciliation to take care of them. We had to lay a number of commissioners off that we had been using almost continuously, because of the shortage of funds. The war conditions have created a great deal more work in that line than we have had heretofore. The Council of National Defense in its efforts to stabilize conditions and to get away from the hysteria that undoubtedly existed in the country immediately following the declaration of war issued a statement in which it suggested the maintenance of standards, including standards of living, and suggested that before labor disputes reached the strike stage the mediation services of the department should be called in to adjust the trouble. The immediate effect was a large number of additional applications for conciliators to adjust labor disputes. That condition still continues, and when this estimate was made up I not only feared that we would not have ample funds to carry us through the last fiscal year, but I feared that the $75,000 that was made available for this fiscal year would not be ample under the circumstances to carry us through until the next session of Congress. This is not a class of work that can be apportioned at a regular definite ratio throughout the year. When a labor dispute arises we must deal with it then, or we can not deal with it at all; and I feared then, as I fear now, that the $75,000 that has been allotted will not be ample to carry us through until the regular session of Congress convenes.

The CHAIRMAN. It will not carry you until December?

Secretary WILSON. I fear that on account of the troubles we will have to adjust that the $75,000 will not be ample to carry us until Congress meets and can act.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, will you state what has been done by these commissioners of conciliation during the last year?

Secretary WILSON. Well, we have adjusted a great many labor disputes. The longshoremen situation on the Pacific coast was one of them; the miners situation in the central Pennsylvania coal fields was another. I might say in regard to the central Pennsylvania coalfield dispute that they had voted to strike on the 15th of May of this year unless certain conditions were granted. Through the mediation services of the department, the strike did not go into effect. The central Pennsylvania coal field is the coal field that Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and the great bulk of New England depend on for their steam fuel. There were about 75,000 workers involved in that, and we succeeded in adjusting it without a stoppage of work. We have pending just now a matter in which the department's mediation service had been brought to bear, and that is the strike situation in the shops of the southeastern railways, some of them centering here in Washington and involving 40,000 workers all told. That is a matter in which, through the influence of the mediation service, we succeeded in getting the workmen to withdraw their strike order pending an offer of adjustment on the part of the department. We have definite assurance now that the strike will not take place, because if the mediation service fails to bring them to a

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