ago. The result of that test was not at all promising or satisfactory.

Mr. GILLETT. What sort of gun is it?

Commander KEARNEY. It is a centrifugal gun, using a device that projects a spherical projectile as a result of centrifugal force. I had a conversation with Mr. Rice over the telephone yesterday, and he says that he wants to have his model repaired and placed in condition at the yard to bring it here to demonstrate before the Appropriations Committee. The object of this gun, or the essential feature of it, is that it has no recoil or back kick. It may be possible to develop it, but when it was referred to the Special Board on Naval Ordnance that board reported that the bureau would not be warwanted in expending its funds for the development of this invention.

The CHAIRMAN. Upon the ground that it did not promise anything?

Commander KEARNEY. We can not see that it does promise anything specific, but the inventor, like all inventors, is extremely optimistic. He has succeeded in propelling a spherical projectile of about one-half inch or three-quarters of an inch in diameter with a fair degree of accuracy, but the essence of a successful projectile with us is an elongated projectile, in order to give accuracy of flight, penetration, and to carry explosives and fuses. Whether his gun will permit of being developed to such a degree as to project a projectile of that nature, I do not know.

The CHAIRMAN. The board recommended that the bureau should not expend its money in the development of the gun?

Commander KEARNEY. Not to expend ordnance money for it. If the committee should see fit to appropriate $50,000 for that purpose, we would be pleased to go ahead and carry the experiment out, but the Bureau of Ordnance has not asked for $50,000 for that purpose.

RATIFICATION OF OBLIGATIONS INCURRED.

In looking over my memoranda I find that the chief of bureau desired to bring the following to your attention

Mr. GILLETT (interposing). Where is that?

Commander KEARNEY. It was carried in the previous act. I will read it:

That the appropriation contained herein shall be available for the payment of obligations on account of the existing emergency incurred prior to the passage of this act, and which are properly chargeable to such appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. You have not, as far as I can see, incurred any obligations under this. We put that in the appropriation act because things had to be done under very extraordinary circumstances. Commander KEARNEY. Yes, sir; we have obligated a certain amount already.

The CHAIRMAN. In what way?

Commander KEARNEY. For guns and mounts for merchant ships. Under our previous item of batteries for auxiliaries and merchant ships we had $29,672,000, and we have already obligated $29,693,000. The CHAIRMAN. What item was that for?

Commander KEARNEY. That was for batteries for auxiliaries and merchant ships.

The CHAIRMAN. You had $29,000,000? Commander KEARNEY. We had $29,672,000, and we have actually obligated to date $29,693,000.

Contracts now under actual negotiation for gun forgings, gun mounts, and finished guns will require approximately $8,000,000 in excess of funds now available.

WEDNESDAY, JULY 25, 1917.

STATEMENT OF REAR ADMIRAL FREDERIC R. HARRIS, CHIEF BUREAU OF YARDS AND DOCKS AND COMMANDER E. L. BENNETT, ASSISTANT TO CHIEF BUREAU OF NAVIGATION.

BUREAU OF YARDS AND Docks.

MAINTENANCE-SECTION BASES, CAMPS, AND SUPPLY STATIONS.

The CHAIRMAN. Under "Bureau of Yards and Docks-Maintenance: For general maintenance of yards and docks," etc., you are asking $1.500.000. You have had $4,769,000?

Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir. Up to July 1, 1917, out of the $4,769,000 we expended in the last fiscal year $604,000. So we have a balance this year of $4,164,431. Out of "maintenance" also, in addition to what we have expected, we will have to look after the maintenance of the section bases, also camps and supply stations.

The CHAIRMAN. What are section bases?

Admiral HARRIS. Section bases are in the various naval districts for caring for the patrol fleet.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you established a number of those bases? Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir; we have established section bases, training camps, and air stations, 300 in all. I have a list of the new stations, together with a description of them. We have to heat them, supply electric light and coal, and we have various odd jobs to do. Sometimes we take a building like an armory and have to put up some partitions and fix it up. Sometimes we rent places that have no buildings and we have to put up the buildings. For instance, I have just been to one at Cape May, an old amusement park. We took the building there and it was not arranged to be heated during the winter. Of course, there was some temporary arrangement for the summer time. Now, we will have to provide heat and the coal for the heat and have to pay for water and light. For example, in the New York district we have had to allot $50,000 out of "maintenance" for maintaining a section base and $50,000 out of "repairs," which we will come to later, for arranging the heating apparatus.

The CHAIRMAN. How do you arrive at this estimate?
Admiral HARRIS. I can give you a summary.

Under "Maintenance" we have 9 navy yards, 9 naval stations, the Naval War College, 4 training stations, 10 aeronautic stations, 2 torpedo stations, 3 submarine bases, 9 ammunition depots, 2 magazines, 1 nitrate depot, 18 hospitals, 27 coal and fuel oil plants, 21 radio stations, the proving ground, the rifle ranges, 1 experimental station, marine barracks, posts, and depots, 43, brigades, 7, naval section bases, 18, naval section offices, 15, naval training

camps, 24, naval supply depots, 7, naval reserve offices, 3, naval district offices, 1, naval communication office, 1, naval inspection offices, 3, naval training school, 1, naval landing, 1, naval purchasing office, 1-300 in all. There will be additional sections that will have to be put in.

The CHAIRMAN. How many of these places have not been provided for heretofore?

Admiral HARRIS. All of the section bases, all of the training camps, all of the supply stations-by that I mean in Philadelphia-for ininstance, down in the city we have rented a supply station for the naval district separated from the yard. In Brooklyn, at Thirtyfifth Street, we have rented a city pier and rented some warehouses from the Bush Company and have secured permission from the city to use a marginal space to put up some temporary storehouses. We have that place to operate. In New York, on the East River, we have rented two piers from the city and have put in partitions, etc. That will be used for the storage of gear taken from the German ships. Another instance, in New York we are now trying to rent a basin and use that for the anchorage of the patrol fleet. I can go on and describe them all.

The CHAIRMAN. How do you reach the $1,500,000 additional to the $4,000,000 which you have?

Admiral HARRIS. The normal expenditures, without the section bases and the training camps, for maintenance and operation art now running about $300,000 per month, leaving about $750,000 for other purposes.

The CHAIRMAN. That is for the whole year?

Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir. Approximately, one-half of the stations enumerated have been established since the last hearing on the estimates under this fund. We are having an estimate made by Capt. Marvell, in charge of the patrol-section bases, and the estimates prepared by the yards indicate that the funds required, in addition to the navy yards proper, would be about $200,000 per month for all districts which, with the $750,000 we expected to have left on the regular estimate, and $1,500,000 we figure would carry us through the year.

We have established, for instance, a training camp, at the request of the Chief of the Bureau of Navigation, in Pelham Bay Park. That camp will have to be heated and supplied with water and electric light and have to be furnished with transportation for the supplies, etc.

TRAINING STATIONS.

(See pp. 275, 282.)

Mr. SHERLEY. How many men are you training?

Admiral HARRIS. I have asked Commander Bennett, of the Bureau of Navigation, who is looking after that, to come here in order that he might give you the details of that.

Commander BENNETT. Do you mean actually have under training to-day?

Mr. SHERLEY. Yes, sir; and how many do you contemplate? Commander BENNETT. We will have about 165,000 men in the Regular Establishment. We will probably have 60,000 of these under training on shore this winter, and about 35,000 in the Reserve Force,

of whom an indefinite number-we can not tell, because we do not know how many vessels will be ready-probably a majority-will be under training this winter.

Mr. SHERLEY. You expect to have something like 80,000 men under training?

Commander BENNETT. I think that would be a fair estimate; yes, sir: for this winter.

Mr. GILLETT. Does that include the Marine Corps?

Commander BENNETT. No, sir. As fast as the vessels become available and these men have been sufficiently trained to make them of value, they will go aboard the ships.

The CHAIRMAN. How long a period do you give them on shore? Commander BENNETT. In time of peace, usually six months at the training station. That has had to be cut down, depending upon the urgency of the situation. Some of the men have gone afloat after having been at the training stations only three weeks. Of course, they could not be considered trained. The training has to be continued at sea, a very undesirable situation.

Mr. SHERLEY. Are you undertaking to train any green men aboard ships?

Commander BENNETT. There is a certain number of recruits, mechanics, who will go right on board ship, and have gone on board ship. but they should be really trained on shore to secure the military discipline, because even a plumber on board ship will be a much more valuable plumber if he is a disciplined man.

Mr. SHERLEY. Can not they get the decipline aboard ship?

Commander BENNETT. Yes, sir; but the training on board ship is a special training. On shore they are put in the ranks and trained to obey orders when orders are given. On board ship they are at work and not under training. There is a certain kind of education that can never be properly carried out on a ship; another kind can not be carried out on shore. We can not train a naval fireman on shore and make him a finished product. That is the education, but the discipline part with which every officer and man must be thoroughly imbued before he ever goes aboard ship, we are trying to do at the training stations, where they make a specialty of that sort of thing and have the organization for carrying it out.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand, you have 24 of the training stations?

Admiral HARRIS. Training camps; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many men do you have at a training camp, on the average?

Admiral HARRIS. It varies very considerably. It will run from seven or eight hundred in some places to about fifteen thousand in Chicago. Is not that right?

Commander BENNETT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. After this winter, when you have trained the 80.000, will it be necessary to maintain these places?

OPERATION OF MERCHANT MARINE.

Commander BENNETT. I think it will. I think that we will eventually have to take over the entire merchant fleet. The CHAIRMAN. And operate the ships?

Commander BENNETT. Yes, sir. I am as certain of that as I am of anything.

Mr. SHERLEY. What do you mean by taking over and operating the merchant fleet? Do you mean the entire personnel of the merchant fleet will be of enlisted men?

Commander BENNETT. I think so.

Mr. SHERLEY. Enlisted men that will be taken from these trained men?

Commander BENNETT. Yes, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. How about the sailors now operating these ships; is it the idea that they will be discarded for the trained men?

Commander BENNETT. I think so, sir. I am talking now of the trans-Atlantic fleet, which is growing by leaps and bounds. Every report we get from a ship which has gone over and back, on which we had an officer or petty officer in charge of the armed guard, shows the condition on those ships, especially among the crew, and in some cases among the officers, was such that we can not ever hope to keep up the trans-Atlantic service unless it is in the hands of disciplined

men.

Mr. SHERLEY. You probably have made that clear, but I want to be certain that I understand you. By that you mean that the men now navigating these ships would be discarded?

Commander BENNETT. Not all of them, but a great majority of the men and probably a very small proportion of the officers. The officers would have to be taken in, enrolled in the Navy, and still remain as watch officers, but a good part of the ships would have to be commanded by naval officers.

Mr. SHERLEY. Take the case of an ordinary fireman or deck hand; your idea is that they would have to be replaced?

Commander BENNETT. The great majority of the firemen in the merchant service are foreigners. There are very few American firemen afloat, even in the costwise trade. They are men who can not be disciplined.

Mr. SHERLEY. I simply wanted to get at your statement.

Commander BENNETT. I am simply trying to justify my statement. I think inside of next year we will be maintaining practically all the ships in the trans-Atlantic service.

Mr. SHERLEY. That would involve the supplying of what number of men; have you any idea?

Commander BENNETT. No, sir; I could not even guess at that, because I do not know how many ships we will take over or how many ships are going to be built.

The CHAIRMAN. You judgment is that this number of training camps will be required after this winter, when the 80,000 men now contemplated will have been trained?

Commander BENNETT. I think so. I do not think that we have provided for any too many.

Mr. CANNON. How many training camps?

Admiral HARRIS. Twenty-four.

Commander BENNETT. May I elaborate my statement a little bit? Mr. SHERLEY. Certainly.

Commander BENNETT. We had four regular naval training stations in existence prior to the war through which all the recruits