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Mr. WARNER. No; it was because a new form of statement had to be gotten out and it had to be issued the next day. But that is a frequent occurrence there—that is, it is not infrequently that they work overtime.

Mr. Byrys. Are you in the same condition that these other gentlemen say they are in with reference to leave?

Mr. Warser. The whole office; yes. As I stated, there are only Hon leave and 20 who are sick.

Mr. Byrns. That applies to the whole office?

Mr. WARNER. Yes, sir; with the exception of the National Bank Redemption Agency, which is paid for by the banks.

Mr. Byrus. You spoke of a new form of statement requiring them to work all night?

Mr. WARNER. Yes, sir.

Mr. Byrxs. Of course, that is behind you, so far as that is con('erned?

Mr. W'ARNER. Oh, yes. "I simply mentioned that to show you it is lery important work. The form was changed on the order of the Secretary and it had to be put into effect at once. Mr. Allen is more familiar with the accounting section, and he could explain the details better than I can.

Mr. ALLEN. All of the accounts pass through the accounting division and the results are passed on to the principal bookkeeper, and he and his assistants prepare the daily statement. We sometimes pay 85,000 checks a day, and any delay in this work in getting a balance for the day causes a delay in his work. I am very familiar with the work there and I know that they need this extra force in order to keep up the work. The war work has increased this daily statement work in that they have to handle a great deal of their figures by telegrams, especially in relation to these Libery Loan propositions.

Mr. BYRNS. What do you mean by telegrams?

Mr. ALLEN. Telegraphic reports, coming in from Federal reserve banks as to what they have done on the sale of the bonds, certificates of indebtedness, and so on. Those reports are frequently telegraphed in so that the daily statement may be kept current.

Mr. WARNER. I do not think it has been stated, but there are about 4,000 Government disbursing officers' accounts which have to be stated, and I think they are coming in at the rate of about 25 a day.

Mr. ALLEN. Yes; we are opening on an average of 25 new accounts every day.

Mr. Byrns. On account of the war?
Mr. ALLEN. Yes, sir.

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Mr. Byrns. What about these four additional clerks for the warrant division?

Mr. WARNER. They are trying to borrow help all the time, and it simply robs one office to help another out; that is due to the fact that there has been a great increase in the work and an increase in the number of warrants issued. They are coming to my division frequently and borrowing help, and when they borrow from me it puts me behind, and I have to skirmish around for help in some other place.

Mr. Allex. You know, all money appropriated by Congress is first set aside by warrants, and the number of warrants has increased very greatly, approximately in the same ratio that my work has increased, by reason of the war.


Mr. BYRNS. What is the occasion for the two clerks in the cashier's office ?

Mr. WARNER. They have had a very large increase, and one increase that they had was on account of the great increase of currency that came from the Federal reserve banks at Atlanta and Richmond in connection with this war loan; they had to borrow five clerks from the agency and five clerks from the Loans and Currency Division and pay for them out of that liberty-loan fund. There has been a very heavy increase in the work.

Nr. BYRNS. Are these increases to which you refer, particularly in your division, the cashier's office, and the Warrant Division, going to be permanent, or are they to exist only during the war?

Mr. WARNER. I think they are going to last forever.
Mr. BYRNS. Or, I mean, during the issuance of these bonds?
Mr. ELLIOTT. The bonds are known as 15 and 30 year

Mr. BYRNS. I know, with reference to the interest.
Mr. ELLIOTT. And they will go on to 1932.
Mr. BYRNs. I appreciate that. What hours do you clerks work?
Mr. WARNER. From 9 until 4.30.
Mr. BYRNS. Seven hours?

Mr. WARNER. Yes, sir. In some of the divisions they have to work until they balance, and in some of the divisions the volume of worklike in Nr. Allen's division, the Accounting Division is such that that very frequently work overtime. But the rule is until 4.30.

Mr. CANNON. The Government is the principal stockholder in this farm-loan bank proposition, and I would like to ask whether that business runs through your office or whether it will run through your office?

Mr. WARNER. That has not affected us very much as yet.
Mr. CANNON. I know; but does it run through your office ?

Mr. ALLEN. There is no appreciable work at all in connection with that.

Mr. CANNON. There is nothing to be audited ?
Mr. ALLEN. No, sir.

Mr. CANNON. In other words, it is a corporation, and you do not have any more trouble with it than you do with the national banks?

Mr. ALLEN. No, sir.
Mr. BYRNs. You stated that your clerks worked from 9 until 4.30?
Mr. WARNER. Yes, sir.

Mr. Byrxs. As I understand it, the heads of departments have disüretion to extend the hours? I know it has been done in the War Department, and I would like to ask you whether there has been any such extension of hours in the Treasury Department !

Mr. WARNER. No, sir. It has never been necessary to issue an order extending the hours; when the work becomes behind they just simply work, and the chiefs of divisions do not ask the treasurer for an order to that effect, but they keep the clerks there until they bal. ance, or as we did; we worked for eight months every night, every Sunday, and every holiday, but it was not necessary to issue any order. In the accounting division they are working now every Saturday half holiday.

Mr. GATES. The work in our division begins at half past 8 every morning, and very seldom do we close our vault until 5 o'clock in the afternoon.

Mr. Byrns. That is in the redemption division!
Mr. GATES. Yes, sir.

Mr. Cannon. The Government is in the insurance business. Are there any reports that require auditing, etc., in that connection?

Mr. ELLIOTT. That is in the Bureau of War-Risk Insurance, which is a bureau under the Treasury Department. However, it does not affect the Treasurer's office, unless it be in regard to payments that may be made by checks drawn on the Treasury.

Mr. WARNER. It affects us in this way: We can send money by registered mail and insure for 2 cents up to $50 and 5 cents a thousand, so that if there is any money lost in transit this insurance company pays it. Prior to that the system was to send by registered mail, but you could not insure beyond $50, whereas now we can insure for any amount.

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Mr. Byrxs. The next item is " For the purchase of furniture, filing devices, typewriters, and labor-saving devices, including exchange and repairs, for lise in the office of the Treasurer of the United States, $17.500."

Mr. ALLEN. In order to handle this large volume of work, very frequently as many as 80,000 checks a day, adding machines and devices that are used by the big banks in New York, Chicago, and other places are purchased. We have a large number of adding machines now, probably 35 or 40, and in order to handle the increase in work we will need from 30 to 50 per cent more adding machines. Instead of posting our accounts by hand we use the posting machines, and these checks have to be canceled when paid, and that is done by the use of check-canceling machines. We have two at the present time which we have had for two or three years. The volume of work has tremendously taxed the capacity of those machines; they are running all the time and are wearing out; we need one to take care of the increase in work, and we will need another to replace the extra strain on the two machines we have. Then we need tables. desks, and chairs for 30 clerks; then we use an addressograph, by which we save the labor of three typewriters; we need extra addressograph equipment; then we need filing equipment to file the checks and statements. Mr. Byrns. Then you want furniture, you say, for additional


Mr. ALLEX. Thirty clerks.
Mr. Byrxs. And filing cases?

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Mr. Allex. Yes, sir.

Mr. Byrxs. How much do you estimate you will need for furniture!

Mr. Allex. I put in a memorandum of $1,100 for tables, desks, and chairs.

Mr. Byrns. How much for your filing cases?
Mr. Allex. I put down $700 for filing equipment.

Mr. Byrns. How much do you figure is needed for your adding machines ?

Mr. Allen. For machines for adding and posting, $11,000.
Mr. BYRNs. That would purchase how many ?

Mr. ALLEX. That will purchase about 21 machines of the kind that we need. We have to have some complicated machines for adding and subtracting and posting.

Mr. Byrxs. What do they cost!

Mr. Allen. Well, an adding, subtracting, and posting machinr of sufficient capacity to handle the amounts that we use, $100,000,000, would cost about $600 or $700: a similar machine for straight adding work, of the kind we use, costs from $450 to $525.

Mr. BYRNs. How much for your canceling machines!

Mr. ALLEN. I put down $1,000; they will cost approximately $500 apiece.

Mr. Byrxs. Then for your addressographs?

Mr. ALLEx. Addressograph equipment, $1,000. An addressograph inachine does not cost that much, but the machine which makes the plates is very expensive, costing $500 or $600—$700, I guess.

Mr. Byrns. You state that you handle 80,000 checks a day?

Mr. Allen. We frequently handle 80,000 checks; to-day we will handle 70,000 checks.

Mr. Byrxs. How long have you been handling in the neighborhood of that many checks? In other words, since when did your work along that line increase?

Mr. ALLEN. April, 1917, over April, 1916—that was the first month after war was declared—the increase was 14 per cent, in May 35 per cent, in June 37 per cent, and in July 51 per cent, and we know from the communications we have from the War and Navy Departments that they have hardly begun to designate disbursing officers and to call for expenditures.

Mr. Byrds. Now, there is a contingent fund in the Treasury Department for the purchase of labor-saving devices, etc.

Mr. ALLEN. That is barely sufficient to take care of the normal needs.

Mr. Byrns. Do you get any portion of it for the Treasurer's office?

Mr. ALLEN. Yes, sir; they allot it every month, and if we are fortunate enough to get our estimate in three or four months ahead of time we may get a machine or two.

Mr. Byrus. I recall in reference to the last legislative bill that an estimate was submitted for $2,000. The committee, after hearing the chief clerk and considering the matter, lumped that in and made an increase in the entire contingent fund of the Treasury Department. with the expectation that the Treasurer's office would be given the benefit of it. Did you get that?

Mr. ALLEN. They purchased two adding machines for us two or three weeks ago to replace some old machines that had worn out.


The appropriation, however, which the chief clerk got was only to take care of the normal increase on account of the wear on the machines, and he told me when I spoke to him about this that it was impossible for him to furnish me with any of the machines that we would need in connection with this increase in work.

Mr. Byrns. Could you reduce your estimate as to the number of clerks needed if this estimate was allowed in full?

Mr. AllEx. I do not see how we could. It is based on a 51 per cent increase in work, and we are only asking for 35 per cent increase in clerks. Our work has been thoroughly systematized by the Efficiency Burean, and in the last three or four years the forces in the Accounting Divisions have been decreased by 71 clerks, with a saving of $92,000 in salaries. We are constantly in touch with the Bureau of Efficiency and adopt every new device they suggest that we can use. I was sent by the department last spring to New York to spend a week in the big banks there to see if I could learn from them methods we could adopt in curtailing the work, and I found they were using practically the same methods we have used since the Efficiency Bureau made this installation.

Mr. Byrxs. Now, with reference to the file cases and furniture, the department is now asking for an addition to their contingent expenses of $4,000 for the purchase of file holders and file cases and $10,000 to cover the purchase of book rests, chairs, furniture, typewriters, etc., making a total of $14,000, which the department is now asking in addition to the amount carried in the current bill for this particular purpose.

Mr. Allex. The explanation for that is this: The Auditor for the War Department came to Congress and received in the war bill, as I understand, an increase of 66 per cent in his clerical force. The Auditor for the Navy Department secured a 33 per cent increase of force. Neither of those officers asked anything for furniture to take care of those clerks—134 in the office of the Auditor for the War Department and 34 or 35 in the office of the Auditor for the Navy Department. The increase that the chief clerk asked for for furniture and filing equipment is for those offices and not to take care of the increase in this office.

Mr. Byrns. My recollection of his testimony is that he needed a great portion of it for those two offices, but that it was not all needed for that purpose. The object of my reference to that estimate, which has been explained by Mr. Wilmeth, is to find out if you could not get your furniture, such as file cases and file holders, from that appropriation if the committee should allow it; in other words, there is always an objection to having two or three different funds for the same purpose in the same department. It occurs to me that that is not particularly good business and does not make for good bookkeeping. I should think.

Mr. ALLEN. If you provide this fund we are asking for, it will be administered by the chief clerk, and he keeps the account. He handes it exactly the same as though it were in addition to the regular fund.

Mr. BYRNs. You have heretofore talked with the chief clerk about your need for furniture and file holders and file cases?

Mr. ALLEN. Yes, sir; and he said he could not, with what he had asked for, furnish them to us.

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