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A. That didn't make it wrong, did it?

Q. No, sir; I agree with you, fully. Now, there was another thing that you wanted with a view to economy down there. Yon remember that you thought the swill and the slops from the buildings could be profitably used, and be made to bring in some return by the keeping of pigs down there?

A. Well, they do keep pigs, and always did.
Q. Well, you wanted a piggery, didn't you?
A. Yes, I called for a piggery there.
Q. Well, what became of that recommendation that you made?
A. We kept the pigs, but we didn't get the piggery,
Q. Well, why did you ask for a piggery?
A. Sir?
Q. Why did you ask for a piggery?
A. To have room for the hogs that was all.
Q. What?
A. To make room for the hogs -- that is all.

Q. And to be able to take care of the number that you ought to have ?

A. Aud to be able to take care of them; yes.
Q. That wasn't a luxury?
A. No, sir.
Q. There is economy in that?
A. There is economy in that, I think.

Q. Now, let us see how your recommendation fared with the Commissioners. On December 31, 1889,

you made your first report to the Commissioners, in which you say, “A piggery is also very much required.” That was in 1889.

In 1890 you repeat the statement, and say, "The most important additions needed for the coming year are a new barn avd a piggery.” You didn't bring anything about by that recommendation?

A. I guess they got a new barn, didn't they?
Q. I don't think they got it then. I guess they got it later.
A. They got a new barn.

Q. Then, December 31, 1891, you again say, “I would recommend the building of a new piggery on Long Island and coalshods on each island." That was in 1891. February 1, 1893, in your next report, you still persevere in this assertion.

11. Oh, I am a very persevering man when I undertake to do anything.

Q. And you thien said, " I would again call your attention to the necessity of having a coal-shed on Long Island, also a piggery.” That was the report for the year 1892. Now, strangely enouyb, although you and Dr. Cogswell differ in most respects, you seem to agree in this thing. Dr. Cogswell, in bis report submitted February 1, 1894, says: " If we had the building, we could keep 200 or more hogs, without much, if any, expense to the city.” That is the same idea that you bave expressed previously?

11. I didn't say the number that I could keep.
Q. But it was the same general idea?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And in this respect you and he were in harmony?

A. I don't think you could raise as many as that.
Q. How many do you think
A. I am not going to give my opinion on it.

Q. So, there was another class of recommendations which you maile to the Commissioners in regard to the economical management of the place which the Commissioners did not act upon favorably. Now, you also asked for some coal-sheds. That was with a view to economy, wasn't it?

A. It was for the protection of the coal. Whether it was economy or not may be a question.

Q. But you made that with a view to economy, didn't you?
A. I don't know what you call it.

Q. Well, did you propose to protect it for a luxury, or for beauty, or what?

A. I don't know. When I was a young man it was very seldom that you would see coal covered; and whether it is economy pow to keep it covered or not is a question to be decided.

Q. You wanted it because you thought it was more economical?
A. That was my single opinion.
Q. That was the reason you asked for it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember when you first asked for it?
A. No, sir, I don't.

Q. Well, we will go back to the report of 1890. You there made a very valuable report, in which you said that you wanted

a coal-shed for the back or south wharf. You didn't get that, did you?

A. No, sir.

Q. But you persevered, and in 1891, you again say, “I would recommend the building of

coal-sheds on each island.” That was also with a view to economy; and in 1892

Mr. PROCTOR. — Pardon me for interrupting, but what is the use of taking up the time of the committee with this sort of crossexamination, when a perusal of the reports of the Commissioners who show that the Commissioners also united with the recommendation made by Mr. Galvin, and the City Government struck those items out? What is tbe use of wasting time.

Mr. BRANDEIS. Well, we will endeavor not to waste time, sir, but we will call attention to what we think is necessary.

Mr. PROCTOR. Well, I have called your attention to that fact.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) In 1893, Mr. Galvin, you again repeated that

didn't you -- calling attention to the necessity of having a coal-shed on Long Island?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And here is another thing on which you and Dr. Cogswell have united.

A. I beg pardon, sir, I never spoke to Dr. Cogswell about it.

Q. No, but your opinion in the matter is one of the few things upon which both of you agree.

66 A coal-shed would save much more than the annual interest on the cost.” That is true, isn't it?

A. I don't know, sir. I couldn't test that.

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Q. You think it is true?
A. No, I never tested it so as to state it for truth).

Q. Well, now, who were your pbysicians down there while you were iu charge?

A. Well, we had a number of them.
Q. Yes, who were they?
A. I don't know as I can call them all by name vow.
Q. Dr. McLaughlin was one?

A. Dr. McLaughlin was one, Dr. Harkins was another, and we had a Dr. Shea there he was another.

Q. Was he the physician in charge or was he assistant?
Ă. Dr. McLaughlin was the lead physician.
Q. And Dr. Harkins was head physician?
A. He was after Dr. McLaughlin.
Q. Yes, and Dr. Holmes ?
A. Dr. Holmes, of course.
Q. He was the head physician?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And what was the general character of the physicians whom you bad under you there?

d. I called it good.
Q. Did they faithfully perform their duties?
A. I think so.
Q. Did they seem to be intelligent and efficient men?

A. I think so. One of them was called to administer at the State Prison there. That is a pretty good recommendation for hind Dr. McLaughlin, I consider him as vice a young there is in the city of Boston to-cay.

Q. And able in his profession?
A. And able in his profession, sir.
Q. Dil:gent?
4. Diligent.
Q. Intelligent?
d. In every way, sir.
Q. And was that true also of the others ?
A. Which of the others?
Q. Dr. Holmes and Dr. Harkins.

4. Dr. Holmes couldn't hegin to compare with Dr. McLauglilin. Dr. Harkins is as good a practical young map as you will get in Boston.

Q. That is, Dr. Harkins and Dr. McLaughlin stand out preeminently as the physicians of the island ?

A. I call them celebrated doctors, for young men.

Q. And they are men in whose opinions you personally had great confidence?

4. Yes, sir; I had every confidence in them.

Q. And I presume in matters relating to the hospital, you deferred to them, not being a medical man yourself?

4. Always, sir, always. Q. And you practically regarded them as heads of the hospital?

1. Always, sir. I went through the hospital, as I stated last night, and if there was any complaint to make I heard it and went immediately to the doctors and it was rectified.

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Q. Now, you said something about this building which bad been used last summer for a children's hospital under Dr. Erost. That was the same building that had formerly been used as a hospital on the island ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was the occasion of referring to that building yesterday and the use to which it bad been put?

A. I didn't refer to it?

Q. Well, what did you understand was the occasion for referring to it?

Ă. I understood nothing; only answered the question that was put to me.

Q. Well, you answered that the condition of it and the building itself had been highly complimented by Dr. Ernst, the eminent bacteriologist ?

A. It was; yes, sir.

Q. And did you infer anything from that fact with reference to questions that had been considered in the past, the sufficiency of the building?

A. He thought that the building was as good as he could obtain anywhere for the purpose that he wanted it for.

Q. Yes; well did you mean by that, by answering those questions, to imply that the criticisms which Mrs. Lincoln and some others had passed upon the building as a hospital building were unfounded?

A. I don't understand what criticism was made by Mrs. Lincolo.

Q. Well, Mrs. Lincoln did complain in times past, you know, that the hospital accominodations were entirely insufficient there, didn't she?

A. In what respect?

Q. Well, insufficient for all purposes for a pauper hospital for Boston ?

A. They were well taken care of there as I thought.
Q. And the building was proper?
A. I don't think they made any complaints to Mrs. Lincoln.

Q. But I didn't ask you whether they made complaints to her or not.

A. If there was reason to find fault I think they would find fault to Mrs. Lincoln.

Q. But your physicians found fault before Mrs. Lincoln ever appeared on the scene, didn't they?

A. What about?
Q. About that hospital down there.
A. Let us hear what they said.
Q. I asked you whether they did not?

A. My memory don't serve me right. It is now before you and you can read it, and theu I will answer.

Q. Well, all right. You can have it. This is Dr. McLaughlin's statement in the report for 1889, the first report which you submitted to these Commissioners :

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It is remarkable that a building which was a small-pox hospital fifty-seven years ago, ani wliich since then has undergone no material improvement, should up to the present time be the only hospital connected with our pauper institutions.

A. I recollect that, sir.
Q. You l'ecollect that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that was true, wasn't it?
4. Yes, sir; that was true.

Q. So that you didn't blame Mrs. Lincoln for complaining afterwards that nothing had been done about the thing that your physician, Dr. McLaughlin, thought was a disgrace to the city, did you?

A. I don't see wliy Mrs. Lincoln complained any more than any other visitor that comes there. I don't think she has any more privilege.

Q. Well, don't you think every good citizen of Boston is interested to see that the institutions are the best places of the kiud in the world ?

A. There are many good ladies who come down there and no criticisms are made of any of the buildings down there except by Mrs. Lincolo.

Q. Well, do you think Dr. McLaughlin was wrong?
A. In what respect?
Q. In this complaint, this expression of surprise?
A. I didn't say so.

Q. But you seem to find fault that Mrs. Lincolo or any other person should go flown and find fault with the building?

4. Is her opinion worth any more than any other in lividual's?

Q. Well, if her opinion coincided with Dr. McLaughlin's, you would think it was entitled to some respect, wouldn't you?

A. I always respect her opinion, sir, always. It is not a modern hospital, of course. It was not expected to be, by any means; but I think to-day, sir, the Commissioners of Public Institutions will show you as good a hospital or hospitals as you will find in any other part of the country.

Q. Well, what they complain of and what was complained of back in 1889, 1890, and 1891, was this thing down there, wasn't it?

A. I don't see as the Commissioners or the superintendent had anything to do about that.

Q. I am not asking you that question, but am asking you if that is not what was complained of at the time? Mr. Brownell complained of it, too, didn't he?

A. Well, as I said last night, he wasn't hardly responsible.

Q. Well, he did it, didu't he – happened to strike it by a mere coincident?

1. Well, he is as nearly right there as about finding vermin about the institution.

Q. You think he was wrong, then, in his complaints about the hospital?

1. Oh, I give him his opinion ; that is all.


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