A.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Well, the date on which he appears to be receipted for dissection is Nov. 25. I think the date must have been a few days before that. Now, doctor, when clerk Hinds told Mrs. Moran that Edward Cuddy had been buried, what do you understand that he meant?

A. Vell, as he told me, he said that he was buried, but if she wanted to get the body she would have to see the superintendent about it. And he told me

I isked him what he told her that for. He said that he didn't harlly like himself to tell her that the body had been sent up for anatomical purposes and he had rather that I should tell her.

Q. Then he knew that Edward ('uddy had not been buried, but had been sent up for anatomical purposes?

A. He should have known it.
Q. And did know it?
Å. I think he did; yes, sir.
Q. And that was the reason why he lied about it to her ?

Well, I suppose he didn't want to tell her.
Q. Well, now this Hinds keeps the records, does he, down at Long
Island ?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. What records does he keep?
A. He keeps the records of the institution, the books.
Q. Well, now, just what books does he keep?

4. Well, he keeps these books that we have got here – the death book and the burial book. Those are kept under my supervision and the supervision of the deputy.

Q. He keeps the death book — that is one book; and the burial book another book!

4. Yes, sir.

Q. Yes, keeps those two books, the death and burial books. What other book does he keep?

A. He keeps the invoice book.
Q. What does that invoice book show?

A. It shows the daily receipts at the island or not the receipts, but the bills, the itemized bills.

Q. You mean the itemized bills of everything that comes to the island ?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. For consumption, or for the purpose of equipping the island ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then what else does he keep?
Å. Then he has what I call a register. .
Q. What is that?

A. That gives the name and age, height and weight, birthplace, birthplace of father and mother, occupation, and remarks, about all the inmates that arrive there.

Q. Yes. Now, does he keep that book under supervision, or does he do that by himself?

A. Well, he keeps it under certain supervision of myself, — that is, that it is kept up to date. He keeps it the same as any clerk would keep

Q. Any book?
d. Any book.
Q. You don't know what he enters, but you leave that work to him?
A. I leave that work to him ; yes, sir.

Q. Well, now, that is the fourth book. Now, what other books does he keep?

A. Then he keeps what I should call a journal.
Q. What is that journal ?
Å. That is the book that contains the pay-roll and the bills – say

from John Jones and William Smith, John Jones $10, with the date. It is the total of what I call tlie invoice book.

Q. Yes,
A. The invoice book is itemized and this is not.
Q. Yes. That is the fifth book.
A. Then he keeps the requisition book.
Q. What is that?

A. That is a book on which all of the requisitions, the monthly requisitions or semi-monthly requisitions are kept. We keep the stub, and the requisition is sent to the city.

Q. That is the sixth set. Now, what else does he keep?

A. He keeps a book that -- I don't know exactly what you would call it. It is a book that contains a copy, a double copy.

Q. Yes.

Å. Of the itemized bills, stubs, the original of which is sent to 14 Beacon street and the duplicate is kept down there.

Q. That is the seventh set of books is it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, what other books does he keep?
A. Then he has an index register, and that is all that he keeps.
Q. Then he keeps those eight. Isn't there a book that you call the
Black-ball Book"?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is another book he keeps ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is that?

Ă. That is the book in which is recorded - if a man is sent to the city for any breach of discipline his name is recorded in that, and what he is sent away for.

Q. Yes; what else? Then there is a book, isn't there, that records the doings of the officers, the business of the officers, and the like, isn't there?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is the ninth book he keeps, isn't it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The tenth. What else does he keep?

A. That is all I remember of now. Perhaps Dr. Parker can remember.

Mr. REED. Dr. Ernst is here now and would like to take the stand. He is anxious to get away as soon as he can.

This is the second time he has been here.

The CHAIRMAN. - In a moment.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Now,!besides these ten sets of books, what other books does this clerk Hinds keep?

A. That is all that I remember now.
Q. He keeps also certain books of Rainsford Island, doesn't he?

Å. No, sir, he does not. I will tell you what he does keep, in regard to Rainsford Island -- the admissions and discharges are still kept on our register and index book.

Q. Kept on your book, and consequently that is another separate book that he keeps ?

A. No, sir; it is the same.
Q. It is included in your register, is it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He keeps also the Rainsford Island death book, doesn't he?
A. No, sir; he doesn't?
Q. Well, does he keep the requisitions on the storehouse?
A. No, sir; he does not.
Q. Then those ten sets of books he keeps, and that is his occupation ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long has he been engaged in that occupation ?
Å. I think a little over three years, but I wouldn't be positive.

Q. And what is the salary which he received for that important service ?

A. One dollar per set.
Q. That is, per month ?
A. Yes.
Q. He receives ten dollars a month ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that is the clerk to whom you entrust the keeping of the records of Long Island ?

A. Yes, sir; and I think he is fully competent to do it, too.
Q. Well, he was an inmate, wasn't he?
A. Not when I went there; no, sir. He was clerk on the pay-rolls
- ten dollars a month.

(The testimony of Dr. Cogswell was suspended at this point, in order that Dr. Ernst might testify.)

HAROLD C. ERNST, M.D.- Sworn.
Q. (By Mr. REED.) Your name is Harold C. Ernst?
A. Yes.
Q. And you are a physician ?
Ă. Yes.
Q. Practising in Boston ?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did you receive your medical education, doctor?
A. At the Harvard Medical School.
Q. And when were you graduated ?
A. In 1880.
Q. Since that time, what has been your occupation ?
A. The practice of medicine.

Q. Have you had any further course in medicine since leaving the Harvard Medical School?

A. Well, I have been abroad several times and took a special year's work at the school.

Q. Are you connected with any institutions professionally at the present time?

A. With the Massachusetts Hospital and with the Harvard Medical School

Q. And what position do you hold in the Massachusetts Hospital ?
A. I am one of the physicians to out-patients there.
Q. And with the Medical School what position do you hold ?
4. I am a professor there.
Q. Professor at the Harvard Medical School?
A. Yes, sir; assistant professor — I am the head of the department.

Q. Now, last sunmer did you have charge of the Children's Hospital at Rainsford Island ?

4. Yes.

Q. Will you kindly describe to the committee your connection with that how it came about, what the summer hospital was, and where located ?

A. The summer hospital was located in the old building on Rainsford Island that was originally built for a small-pox hospital. And my connection with it was, in the first instance, purely accidental.

Ald. LOMASNEY. - Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask if there has any criticism been made of the management of the Children's Hospital ? If there has not been

The CHAIRMAN. I don't upderstand that there bas.
Ald. LOMASNEY. Well, I don't see the necessity of taking up the

time of the committee by going into the fact that he was there and established the hospital. That is settled by his own statement. I don't believe there is any need of going into the matter in this way, clescribing in detail everything connected with the hospital.

Mr. RILEY. The newspapers have had it all.

Ald. LOMASNEY. It seems to me if there had been an attack in any way is il public institution, it would be all right, but I certainly object to introducing details here in regard to a private institution as I did once before, on the ground that it is unnecessarily taking up the time of this committee. He can establish the fact that he has been on Rainsford Island and is familiar with the institution, without going into, in any degree, the necessity or the advisability of the work done by that hospital there.

Mr. REED. – I haven't asked him any such question as that.

Ald. LOJASNEY. Well, I simply spoke for the purpose of saving our time.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks it is competent evidence to put in to show whether the building is a good building for hospital purposes.

The W'ITNESS. --I don't know whether the committee wants the whole story or some part of it, but my connection with the institution at all was purely accidental. I was on my way to the quarantine steaner. The suggestion of the need of a place for the sick children in the city came up. I had been impressed with that myself very much indeed, because I see in the summer all the children that come to the Massachusetts Hospital.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) Doctor, excuse the Chair — you went down there and established a hospital, I understand ?

A. Yes.

Q. And will you state to the committee whether the hospital suited your purpose or not?

d. "Yes, it suited the purposes.
Q. (By Mr. REED.) When did you go there, doctor?
A. During the last week in July and the first week in August.

Q. Did you make application to the commissioners for permission to use that building as a hospital?

A. I made no application. The commissioners offered it.

Q. The commissioners tendered you the use of the building on Rainsford Island, did they not?

A. Yes.
Q. And you accepted that offer?

Yes. Q. And established the hospital there. Now, do you remember, doctor, when the first instalment of patients was taken down there?

The Sth of August. Q. And how long did you continue to use that building as a sunmer hospital?

A. The last patients were taken on the 15th and we closed it on the 18th.

Q. Did you have immediate charge of the hospital ?
d. I did.
Q. The 18th of August?
A. Of Septenber.
Q. Did you have inmediate charge of the hospital ?
4.

I did, yes.
Q. And whom did you have to act under you as physician there?

. Dr. Page, C. G. Page.
Q. And what provision was made for the nursery ?

A. The Sisters of St. Margaret. There were two of them always and most of the time three, and we had from three to four trained nurses besides.

A.

A.

Q. And the transportation from the city to the island — how was thiit arranged?

A. It was furnished on the city steamer, the “ Bradlee."

Q. Now, do you remember how many patients were treated there during the summer?

A. I don't remember exactly. The total of mothers and children that were there during the five weeks was 150. Of that number there were from 1:30 to 135 that were patients.

Q. Now, this old building was put in order for you by the commissioners, was it not?

A. Yes.
Q. It was cleaned throughout from top to bottom ?
A. Yes.
Q. And thoroughly whitewashed and painted ?
A. Yes.
Q. And the supplies and attendance were furnished in another way?
A. Yes.

Q. So the renovation of the building was a part of this good work that was furnished by the city ?

A. Yes.
Q. Was any food supplied by the city ?
A. The bread, the cold bread was furnished.
Q. Now, where did that bread come from?
Ă. It was sent over from Deer Island every day.

Q. Then you received your daily supply of bread for that children's hospital from veer Islanıl?

A. Yes.
Q. And what was the quality of that bread ?
A. Very good, as far as I saw it.

Q. You considered that bread, then, a proper and suitable kind of bread for use in that hospital?

A. Perfectly.

Q. And as to the suitability of the building for the purposes for which you used it?

A. With some improvements, I shouldn't want a better building built to-diry.

Q. Well, what was the result of this venture? Was it satisfactory?
4.

I think so, perfectly.
Q. And a great deal of good was done for the sick children?
A. I think so.
Mr. RILEY. What has all this got to do with the investigation ?

Q. (By Mr. REED.) During your visits to Rainsford Island and down the harbor, did you erer go on to Long Islaud ?

A. Yes,
Q. Have you ever visited the hospital there ?
A. Yes.

.
Q. Did you go through the wards ?
A. Yes.

Q. Now, after visiting the Long Island hospital and looking through the wards, with what impression as to that hospital did you go away?

A. A good one.

2. Then you were favorably impressed on the whole with that hospital as a hospital for the purposes for which it was intended ?

1. Yes.

Q. And I understand you to say that the old building on Rainsford Island, as prepared for you by the commissioners, was a suitable building for the purposes for which you used it ?

4. Yes.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) Dr. Ernst, how many children were there at any one time?

.

5