A. What time?

Q. The time the Commissioners wrote to you to let him go, discharge him, dismiss him whatever phraseology they used?

A. I couldn't say.

Q. What was the date of that letter from the Commissioners? Mr. PROCTOR. The letter is the best evidence of that.

The WITNESS. - I couldn't say. It was between January 12 and January 16 sometime.

Q. Yes, and when were the first charges of Smith's drunkenness made to the Commissioners?

A. I don't know, sir.

Q. Well, you know they were made as early as December 23, because you testify yourself that Parker had made them on that day?

A. That is the earliest I know anything about it.

Q. He had been under investigation, then, by the Commission for drunkenness?

A. He had been under investigation?

Q. Yes?

A. Why, certainly I said he had been investigated by the Commissioners.

Q. And this was the result of the investigation

that was sent you?

this letter

A. Yes, sir; if I remember I stated that sometime ago.

Q. Well, I thought you did. I thought you assented fully to my question when Mr. Reed seemed to have a different view of the facts.

Mr. REED. Well, I have now. I know what the record is. Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Now, Dr. Cogswell, will you turn to May 15 and see how that day runs?

A. Eighty-one quarts of milk.

Q. Eighty-one delivered?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, now, this record shows eighty-nine ordered and eightytwo delivered?

A. Well, one quart — I could easily conceive how that might happen.

Q. Well, now, are these figures here, of the cook's, the ones you testified to?

4. I took her figures from the figures that were delivered to the patients in the hospital.

Q. And when you said the figures were from four to eight out of the way you relied on those figures, did you?

A. On the amount that she called for. I took her figures and the amount she delivered. I took her figures.

Q. The figures I read to you rather exceed your recollection in that matter, don't they?

A. It wouldn't be astonishing, inasmuch as I don't think I have looked at them for eight or nine months.

Q. That is, you testified that they were less than the figures show that they are?

A. No, sir, I didn't.

Q. Didn't you?

A. No, sir, I did not.

Q. What did you testify?

A. You asked me to give what I thought, and I said that as far as I remembered those were the figures. I didn't testify that they were the figures, because I wouldn't do anything of the kind. I didn't know.

Q. Well, now, you said you used to sell milk on the island. You have got a record of the sales of the milk on the island, haven't you? Now, let us turn to the sales and see what the sales of milk were in May.

A. Excuse me, Mr. Brandeis, but we were not selling milk in Máy.

Q. How do you know you were not?

A. Because I know we were not.

Q. Well, where are the books which show the sales of milk? A. I don't think I have got them here.

Q. Well, weren't you requested to bring those books?

4. No, sir, I was not.

Q. Let us see the letter. The first thing that is asked for is "books showing expenditures and receipts for 1893 and 1894.” Receipts for milk are a part of the receipts, aren't they?

Mr. CURTIS. That is a pretty good construction.

Mr. BRANDEIS.

Well, what are the receipts?

If you

Mr. CURTIS. Well, I should think expenditures and receipts any intelligent man would know about without asking me. don't know it would be useless for me to undertake to tell you. Mr. BRANDeis. Well, I should think that you as mayor might instruct people quite as unintelligent as I am.

Mr. CURTIS. Well, when I do I will open a kindergarten school and instruct you.

Mr. BRANDeis. Now, Mr. Mayor, won't you give us some construction as to the books you have bere?

Mr. CURTIS. When I have time. This is a busy week.

Mr. BRANDEIS. I guess it is the last busy week you will have. I would like to have the books which show the sales of milk and receipts for milk, during the year 1893-94.

Q. Do you keep any book of that milk that you sold?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where is the book?

A. Down at the island.

Q. What is the nature of the book?

4. It is on the wharf book.

Q. That is, the wharf book where they keep the record of the corpses sent to the city, is it the same book?

A. Yes, sir; the same book.

Q. Well, do they keep the record of the charges to the different

islands and to the boarding-house keeper in that?

A. Oh, we have got that record in another book.

Q. What book?

A. What is called the farm book.

Q. That is in the farm book?

4. What we call the farm book. It contains the sales of the products of the farm.

Q. Yes, and does that contain also the sales to Rainsford Island?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. All of that appears, then, in the farm book?

A. It contains the sales of everything out of the institution.

Q. Does?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, I would like to have the farm book, then, at the next meeting.

Mr. CURTIS.

Now, if he will give us an intelligent request

for what he wants he will try to accommodate him.

Mr. BRANDeis. No human being would know in regard to the books you keep at the island when you keep a burial book in a grocer's pass book.

Mr. CURTIS.

I wanted to find out about the sales of milk and went down to the Collector's office and found out what I wanted in five minutes.

Mr. BRANDeis.

You have the inside track.

Mr. CURTIS. You can go to the Auditor's office or the Collector's office as well as I. I did it when you were putting Mrs. Lincoln on the stand and you can also find out about these things at the Commissioners' office.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Do you say that their records show the same thing?

A. They have a transcript of it - the same.

Q. Of the sales?

A. Yes.

Mr. CURTIS. Of course; everything that is sold from every institution.

Mr. BRANDEIS.

sales?

Mr. CURTIS.

Yes.

Well, the aggregate sales or the itemized

Mr. REED. The original bills are down in the Auditor's office, Mr. Brandeis, and the transcripts of those books are at the office on Beacon street.

Ald. LEE. Showing the milk that was sold?
Mr. REED. Yes, sir.

If milk was sold the bills of the milk sold are in the Collector's office. It is his business to collect the bills.

Mr. BRANDeis. Are they collected from one institution to the other, Long Island to Rainsford?

Mr. REED. The City Collector collects from one to the other. Mr. CURTIS. I say now to you, that if you had asked privately for anything of that kind I would have been willing to tell you. I supposed you had made a study of your side of the case as I have of mine. I found this information.

Mr. BRANdeis. I have made a study of it, but this is your side of the case, and we haven't the means of obtaining information.

Mr. CURTIS. I went down to the Collector's office and got it while you had Mrs. Lincoln on the stand.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Well, doctor, perhaps if Mr. Curtis has the information you can give us the time when you sold this milk at the island.

Mr. REED. He doesn't say he sold it. I think Mr. Galvin sold it. The bills will show.

Mr. BRANDEIS. Let us see, did you sell any milk from the island. In his argument he says he did.

The WITNESS.I certainly did.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) And you stick to it?

A. I certainly shall.

Q. When did you sell it?

A. We began somewhere about the 1st of June, I think it was. Q. And how long does it continue?

A. I think we sold up to November.

Q. And how much did you sell?

A. But mind you, Mr. Brandeis, I am not testifying that these are the absolute figures, I because I don't remember

Q. Yes.

A. But that is my impression, that it covered a period from the 4th of June to the I wouldn't say whether it was the first of November or the first of December.

Q. Well, during this time, then, when these complaints were being made about milk, you were selling milk off the island, weren't you?

it?

A. Certainly. We had plenty on the island, too.

Q. Then these patients complaining about milk might have had

A. The patients didn't complain about milk.

Q. Then you think all the testimony that has been given about patients complaining is untrue?

A. I haven't heard a great deal of testimony about patients complaining about milk from anybody who knew anything about it excepting Morphy, and he testified that the shortage was in December.

Q. Did he?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Sure?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. The only shortage?

A. The only continued shortage; yes, sir.

Q. What did Dr. Parker testify?

A. Well, I don't pretend to follow Dr. Parker's testimony in its

entity.

Q. You don't?

A. No, sir, I don't.

Q. That you do not believe in?

A. No, sir, I do not.

Q. What do you say about Dr. Dever's statement?

A. I don't know anything about his statement, I never heard it. Q. And the statements of Dr. Dever and Dr. Sullivan, referred to here?

A. Oh, no.

Q. Oh, yes; the visitors have testified to that.

A. I should like to see it before I take that for granted.

Q. Now, you were the first man who ever undertook to sell milk on the island, weren't you?

A. No, sir, I was not.

Q. When was it sold before?

A. The previous summer by Mr. Galvin excepting at that time, of course, it wasn't sold, because the two islands were financially run the same. The milk was sent to Rainsford Island just

the same.

Q. Didn't sell any to boarding-house keepers on the island, did they?

A. Yes, sir; they did the same man that I sold it to.

Q. Now, we will see whether that is true. Which year is that the year ending when? The year ending 1892?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, there is a report which shows all the receipts and expenditures. There is the report. Now, I wish you would show

us the items?

A. I don't pretend to show you in this. because, as I said before, when the milk Island it wasn't paid for.

Q. I am not talking about Rainsford. sold to the boarding-house keeper?

I don't know as I can, was sent to Rainsford

You said it had been

A. It wouldn't appear in here anywhere. It is was sold to Mr. Richenbacher.

Q. Why not?

A. Because it would not be itemized that way.

Q. How do you know it isn't?

A. I know it isn't. It is all lumped.

Q. Will you compare the report in your year and Mr. Galvin's year? A. I will.

I will. I haven't up to the present time, but I will be very much pleased to do it now.

Q. If you cannot find it, doctor, I may be able to assist you. Ald. LEE. — It comes in the first part, under "Estimated Income."

The WITNESS. — I should be very much pleased to receive a little assistance from you here, Mr. Brandeis.

Q. (By Mr. BRANDEIS.) Delighted to help you in any way. Look in this report - that is the report in your year, 1893-94, and you " will find on page 7 the item, under Income," of $522.64, which you received or which was received through your good offices for milk. Do you find that?

A. Page 7?

Q. Yes.

A. Yes, sir, I do.

Q. That item is there, isn't it?

4. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, look at the year preceding?

A. Yes, sir; that is just exactly as I stated.

Q. Yes - the year preceding you don't find any such item, do you?